To return to that other "writer", "marxist front", or "MF", "of India",
that
even more populous country which is bordering yours:
In mid-January of this year, 2008, you informed us others (via MLL) of
that
nasty crackdown on democratic forces which was going on in Pakistan.
And "MF" suggested, with a posting to the MM list, that an Internet
petition be
set up, for protesting against that crackdown.
I on my part already had a rather strong suspicion that "MF" too was one
of the
Murray-managed cyber ghosts (it's not very difficult for a person in the
USA to
get an e-mail address which looks as if it's the address of someone in
India,
as is that of "MF"), but so far, I had not found [there] to be any
definite
proof of this.
So I immediately set up such an Internet petition as that suggested by
"MF",
saying publicly that this petition had ben created by "MF and RM on Modern
Marxism list" and "written by Rolf Martens". I still then treated, thus,
"MF"
under the assumption that "he" or "it" actually existed, in India.
If we had been lucky, I think, that petition, "Stop Crackdown on
Democratic
Forces in Pakistan", at
http://www.petitiononline.com/CraDoPak/petition.html,
which was eventually sent to its "target", the government of Pakistan,
might
have "taken off" internationally, so as to gather relatively many
signatures.
As it was, it only got 9 such, but this was not a quite unimportant thing
anyway, I think - because of that principle which it entailed, for
instance.
My tactics on this was: "Now.quite possibly, that 'MF' does not really
exist in
India but is only an invention of that reactionary swine and idiot in the
USA,
Murray. But this is not certain; there quite possibly does exist an 'MF'
in
India - and even if it doesn't, there no doubt do exist such genuinely
Leftist
forces there which want to combat that crackdown in Pakistan too; only, we
others so far are not in contact with them." That is, I let that which was
possibly just a hypocrisy invented by Murray for camouflaging better his
cyber
ghost "MF" "represent", so to speak, such genuine forces as there no doubt
were
and are in India.
After that petition was sent, Murray let his "MF" cyber puppet write some
such
further idiocies, now rather recently in February, that it became quite
clear
to me that "MF" in fact is one of his creations, and not something
actually
existing in India. So I found it suitable to tell the others on the MM
list
about that fact. This was in message #1250 to the MM list (which is at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/modern_marxism/
- non-members too can read
the
messages there, of course).
As could be expected, Murray was not very pleased with this. In replying
messages to MM #1254, #1258 and #1261, he let his "MF" puppet vent his
anger
against me, and now - suddenly and of course "very credibly indeed!" -
"expose"
me as a "CIA agent" and "lackey of imperialism" against whom "all
comrades"
must now "be warned". I have to confess that I'm taking a certain pleasure
in
watching that miserable reactionary idiot swine Murray squirm like that,
at the
exposure of his so "very Marxist" and "very Indian" ridiculous "MF" cyber
ghost. In MM msg #1257, I replied to Murray's ridiculous swine "exposure"
of
me, through his "MF", with "Nice try, Murr-Murr-Ghostie!" and in msg
#1259,
after another squirm post by the beaten swine, with "Who do you think
wins,
Ghostie?" Murray-Ghostie's later postings, or repeated squirms, relayed by
his
puppet "marxist front", I haven't found it necessary to comment on. After
all,
that "MF" ghost already is "sufficiently" dead.
A more recent and likewise both funny and instructive development in this
debate (or what it should suitably be called) has been the entering into
it by
one MM member, David Walters, who is an adherent of backstabbing
Trotskyism and
who has earlier written, on the MM list, such miserably arch-reactionary
swinish things as "Mao Zedong was a traitor"(!!), but who, in my opinion,
despite this has certain positive qualities anyway - as had, for instance,
even
that of course very reactionary chief of the US imperialists, "Tricky
Dick",
back in1972 - sufficiently so for Mao Zedong's inviting him for a visit
then,
since Mao Zedong was Marxist enough and smart enough to realize, at that
time,
that it then was Soviet social-imperialism that constituted the greatest
danger
of a big and enormously destructive war in the world, which is why he
extended
a certain united front against that even to those forces of US imperialism
which were represented by "Tricky".
"Dino" David may not know how swinish it really is to call Mao Zedong "a
traitor" - since quite possibly, he has only gotten information on
political
matters, during all of his life, from Trotskyite swine - and quite likely,
he
won't like very much my viewing the relationship between him and me as
something similar to the one in 1972 between "Tricky" and Mao Zedong. But
that's how I'm viewing that relationship anyway, I want to tell you and
others,
Taimur. (This not meaning, of course, that I think I can be compared to
Mao
Zedong. His brilliantly correct political line I'm doing my best to
follow,
anyway.)
What "Dino" David wrote, in a recent MM msg, #1265 of yesterday, 03.03,
was
that he - this poor Trotsky adherent and political toddler! - was
"calling"(!)
- not even "calling for" - "a truce"(!) in that struggle (if it could be
called
that) between me and Murray - that is, he stupidly hoped that he could now
help(!) that reactionary swine, even after it had already been beaten to a
pulp
on the point of contention in question, and David went so far too as to
call my
recent exposure of that US swine Murray's "MF" as only a cyber ghost, and
not
anything at all really existing in India, "shit"(!) - which showed, I
think,
how very close to the Murray scum, politically, is basically (and
unfortunately) that writer, David Walters. (For all his positive qualities
too,
which do exist and which, back in August 2007, made me send a particular
invitation to him, among some others, to come and write to the MM list I
was
creating).
Murray on his part let his now beaten puppet "marxist front" say, in MM
message
#1267, about this suggestion by his - hopeful - helper, "Dino" David:
"Ok a truce But it should be from both side....it is not acceptable for us
for..." (and blabla...)
That beaten and once-more-exposed reactionary, thus, in the present
situation,
actually hopes for "a truce", it seems! Between him and me!
What do you think of that, Taimur? What, if anything, might be a suitable
reply
by me to this "proposal", in your judgment?
OK, I think that I shall try to figure out by myself, what perhaps to
reply to
the Murray swine and/or to his "hopeful helper" David - with whom I fact
since
long have had some friendly co-operation too, not only political struggle
-
before you get the time to reply to that question of mine, which actually
was
somewhat rhetorical too.
David Walters apparently has taken up that standpoint that my exposing now
the
"cyber ghost" character of "marxist front" - whose very erroneous views on
many
questions I already have refuted in detail, earlier - "is not" a political
question. But of course it is. It makes a lot of difference, of course,
whether
there actually is such a - perhaps only rather ignorant and inconsistent -
group in India, which wishes to discuss things and to interact with others
internationally, including by providing information on what is actually
taking
place in that country, or whether there isn't, whether "marxist front" is
just
an invention, made in order to mislead others and to satisfy his desire
for
reactionary pranks, by that scumbag retired teacher, Thomas P. Murray in
the
USA.
Politically interesting too is the fact that such cyber ghosts as "marxist
front" attract the "heartfelt" help and support of other, and actually
existing, reactionaries and phony"Marxists", against such "terribly
suspicious
and conspiratorial-minded persons" as myself - my name is Monk! - Adrian
Monk!
(You may not understand this, Taimur, but at least David will.)
I hope I have not bored you too much with the above, Taimur, but have
shown you
(and some others, perhaps) at least certain new things and combat methods
which
you didn't know about before and which may be useful for you in the
future.
Rolf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hassan Nasir" <redpak2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: Mazdoor Mahaz
Mazdoor Mahaz means workers front.
It is the Hoxhaist party in Pakistan. Unfortunately, they have played no
role
in the lawyers movement or in the campaign against Musharraf. They have
been
content sitting at the sidelines calling the entire last year of struggle
a
"bourgeois" struggle (which it is but we communists must win the hegemony
of
the bourgeois movement as Stalin explains).
On a lighter note, they would agree with your analysis of Cuba as not
being
socialist etc.
In solidarity
Taimur Rahman
DEBATE POSTING 10 OF 17
Message #1278
Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 7:53 pm
From: marxist front <marxistfront@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Mazdoor Mahaz [plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India"
etc]
Very good Rolf keep it up and continue to dream.....If taimur remembers
our
group and Hari Kumar of Alliance ML had sent a letter of support on Varan
bus
strike....so no need for me and our group to counter your allegation of
our
invisible phony existence.
Anyways we have several other important stuff to do rather than enter into
a
futile idiotic discussion with u on our birth....
take care Rolf we require a joker like amongst MList groups to keep us
amased
with his/her fertile/futile gimmiks
Ghost of Murray(or whatever)
Rolf Martens <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Thank you for this information (below), Taimur, about an organization
which
was earlier unknown to me.
....
DEBATE POSTING 11 OF 17
Message #1279
Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 8:43 pm
From: foreanaer1995 <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: FRSO: Some Points on the Mass Line [David W. "calls a truce",
thinks "shit"]
Hello David "Dino" Walters,
Your comment here is both funny and instructive - this last, I hope, to
all
other members of this list, and with some luck, perhaps even to you
yourself.
Even more so, on both counts, is a later reply to it by that miserable,
totally
beaten, small-time reactionary swine Murray, the USA, that is, the one
whom you
- to no avail, of course - were trying to help out against me, with that
comment of yours.
On this last, see Modern Marxism list message #1267, nominally, of course,
by
Murray's ridiculous cyber puppet invention "marxist front" "of India".
On the firstmentioned, that is, your comment, David, I've written a little
already, in my (rather long) reply to Taimur Rahman, subject 'Re: Mazdoor
Mahaz
[plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India" etc]', of yesterday 04.03,
which
was MM list message #1271. Here's some more, intended directly for you.
Now this present comment of mine is going to be pretty long too, even
longer
than the one directed to Taimur, in fact. This is not because I, perhaps,
consider this "cyber ghost" phenomenon which I shall deal with here a
"big" or
"important" one. But it can, under certain circumstances, cause some
smaller
problems of distraction and diversion, and therefore I think it's good if
as
many as possible know approximately how to deal with it, which I hope will
show
up in those rather many lines in [the] below.
You wrote, David, in your list message #1265:
"I call[!] a truce[!] between both you mutton-chops[!] [meaning, between
me and
the ghostwriting, now once more exposed and beaten, reactionary swine
Murray,
the USA]. Cut the shit[!!] and stick to politics![!]"
A TROTSKYITE "UN SECURITY COUNCIL" "INTERVENES"!
That first which you wrote here was actually you appearing in the role of
"a UN
Security Council", so to speak. You did not content yourself with,
perhaps,
"appealing to" the "warring parties" to "conclude a truce", but *called*
such a
truce, made an "authoritative decision" on it.
And not only was this "a UN Security Council" that appeared here, but it
was
even one acting in accordance with that backstabbing, somewhat
"camouflaged"
bourgeois right-wing-extremist ideology of yours, Trotskyism. Undoubtedly,
a
new phenomenon to most of us others too.
In this "intervention", you at least were not underestimating what role it
is
that you yourself have, in international politics, David! In fact you were
overestimating it, quite considerably too, I absolutely hold.
And what was the object of your attempted "intervention"? Very clearly, to
try
to *help* that now once more exposed and beaten reactionary swine, Murray,
of
the USA. It was an attempt somehow to make my exposure of him concerning
his
ridiculous "cyber ghost" puppet "marxist front" "of India" "go away" again
-
although even you, "Dino", should have realized that this of course was
impossible; it was already much too late for that.
What's instructive here is your now rushing to the assistance of that
Murray
reactionary swine, with such an obviously heartfelt, rather
strongly-worded
"characterization of" my recent exposure of him concerning that "marxist
front"
of his as "shit"[!!] - clearly not even knowing what really *is* shit -
swinish
and utterly wrong statements - in politics, of which precisely you have
happened to provide some good examples, Trotskyite David, such as your
earlier
maintaining, on this list, that Mao Zedong was - "a *traitor*". (And yes,
despite such things, I do want to continue that friendly co-operation
which you
and I have been having, on certain matters, anyway - in the vein, as I
wrote to
Taimur too, of "Tricky Dick's" being invited, for certain reasons, to
visit Mao
Zedong in 1972.)
HISTORY OF THE LITTLE "WAR" CONCERNING "MARXIST FRONT" SO FAR
Now what had happened, so far, in that conflict between Murray and me, in
which
you now "felt called on", David, to "intervene from above"?
A) THE "STRANGELY UNFRIENDLY" POSTING BY "MARXIST FRONT" ON 01.03
It actually began, a few days ago, when that "writer", "marxist front",
"of
India", put a question to me, in list message #1247, on 01.03, subject
"Re:
FRSO: Some Points on the Mass Line":
"Rolf one quick question, in this world apart from yourself who else is a
*Marxist*?
- From Vijay..."
That was, rather suddenly and perhaps surprisingly, a quite "unfriendly"
quip
by "marxist front" ("MF") against me, who so far had been quite friendly
towards that "person" or "group" "in India" - who indeed had even
co-operated
with this "MF" in setting up that, on principle at least, not unimportant
Internet petition last January "Stop Crackdown on Democratic Forces in
Pakistan", among whose unfortunately only few (9) signatories were you,
David
(much appreciated by me of course, and you also commented that this little
protest at least was something not quite negligible, which I think too).
In the notes to that petition, at
http://www.petitiononline.com/CraDoPak/petition.html,
it's said i.a. that
it
was "created by MF and RM on Modern Marxism list" and "written by Rolf
Martens". As you may remember too, it even was "the writer" "MF" who took
the
initiative for it, by suggesting such a petition. "He" (or "it") and I,
thus,
at that time, as recently as in January of this year, even made up a quite
closely-co-operating kind of team at the international level, didn't we?
"MF" and I in fact rather recently, not much more than a month earlier,
had
been international *petition partners*, as you for instance, David, very
well
knew.
Why this sudden unfriendliness towards me by "marxist front", then? This
may
have surprised others, who perhaps didn't know where this "person" or
"group"
"in India" was actually coming from. But I could see a probable reason for
it.
As precisely you, as it happens, have earlier pointed out, "Dino" David:
B) MY NAME IS MONK! - ADRIAN MONK! (WHICH, ON PRINCIPLE, CAN BE THAT OF
EVERYBODY ELSE TOO!)
(That name, I'm telling you others who may not have seen it before, above
all
refers to a certain soap opera series currently shown on TV in the USA -
and in
Denmark too - whose main character, a somewhat unconventional detective by
the
above name, more or less is even out-Sherlocking good old Sherlock
Holmes.)
It was you yourself, David, who put that as a kind of philosophical
designation
of me, returning the favour of my sometimes calling you "Dino" (which has
a
particular background too and by which I mean that you - still - have a
fossilized, dinosaurial thinking, which makes you hold on, not only to
that
long-since-refuted right-wing-extremist ideology of Trotskyism but to
practically every one of those old stupid swinish lies on matters of the
natural sciences, for instance, by the openly-bourgeois politicians and
media,
despite your having already been shown the refutations of them - in some
cases, many times over.) And that nickname, "Monk", is a pretty flattering
one
too, I must say.
Now is it difficult to "be Monk", or "Sherlock", concerning various
political
swindle attempts by the various reactionaries, including those which
involve
"cyber ghosts? Not really. I on my part do have a certain experience
concerning
such matters, probably a relatively unusual one too, as I mentioned in
that
reply of mine to Taimur.
But basically, you only have to know some main points of the political
theory
of Marx, Lenin and Mao Zedong, understand at least approximately that this
is
the correct theory, as seen from the standpoint of the vast majority of
people,
preferably know - this concerning some of the more important political
questions of today, at least - a little of the natural sciences, realize
how
very sharp is the contradiction in the world today between the proletariat
and
the bourgeoisie in the world, and thus see how desperately, most likely,
certain bourgeois reactionaries will act, so as to try to prevent all
independent organization by the international proletariat - and then all
sincere revolutionaries will be able rather well to see through, expose
and
beat such swindle manoeuvres by the reactionaries.
You of course, David, are severely handicapped in this respect, by that
bourgeois reactionary ideology, Trotskyism, to which you've been adhering
since
long - perhaps so much handicapped that you couldn't even see that this
"marxist front" was some kind of reactionary swindle, when I pointed that
out,
in my list message #1250, with which I replied to Murray's #1247 and, for
the
first time, pointed out that "marxist front" in fact was just another one
of
that US-based reactionary swine's many "cyber ghosts" - that there was no
such
"person" or "group" "in India" at all.
C) WHY WAS "MARXIST FRONT" SUDDENLY AND "INEXPLICABLY" SO NOTABLY
UNFRIENDLY
TOWARDS ME? PROBABLY BECAUSE "HIS"/"ITS" HANDLER, MURRAY, WAS NERVOUS
AFTER
HAVING RECENTLY GOTTEN ONE OTHER AND RATHER LONG UNSUSPECTED CYBER GHOST
OF
HIS, "NORMA", EXPOSED.
Actually, this posting, on 01.03, wasn't the first time that "MF" had made
some
relatively negative comments on statements by me. If you look back at some
such
of "his" or "its" in last February too, you'll see that there were [a] few
of
those, resenting, more or less strongly, some comments which I on my part
had
made on some standpoints by "MF", and everybody can judge on whether or
not
those "MF" standpoints were pretty reactionary and stupid.
But "MF's" now, on 01.03, coming with "Who d'you think you are, Rolf, 'the
only
smart person in the world', or what, huh?", that was new, in its
unfriendly
sharpness - and by the way, it contained another certain small stupidity
too,
namely, "marxist front's" signing "his" posting with the name "Vijay". On
those
rare occasions earlier when "he", "representing" "that group" "in India",
had
signed a posting with a name, that name had been "Pratyush", which
incidentally
"he" used recently again, in a posting to the list MLL on 03.03.
You didn't have to be an "Adrian" or even a "Sherlock" to note at once
then, of
course, already because of this "name" inconsistency, that there was
"something
fishy" about this "marxist front".
And I on my part also knew about something that might quite likely be the
reason for "marxist front's" now writing in such a particularly (and
"illogically") unfriendly way towards me, namely, the fact that
"his"/"its"
manager had recently gotten one of his other "cyber ghosts" exposed by me,
and
thus had a reason to be somewhat nervous concerning his "MF" invention
too.
That other cyber ghost was "Norma J F Harrison" <normaha@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>.
"She"
had been around for several months, for a while, in August 2007, even
subscribing to the then new MM list, which "she" left "because", as you
may
remember, David, you and I were "much too fond of" "those horrible nuclear
wastes" for "her" liking. But otherwise "she" appeared, at least to me, to
be a
"genuinely leftwing chick with plenty of gusto directed against the
imperialists",and for instance was even among the the quite few (only 9)
signers of that Pakistan petition "created by MF and RM" last January.
It was "Norma's" so "strangely", and so very much "out-of-character" for
"her"
too, "just hating all Serbs", in connection with the reactionary
separating-off
of Kosovo, that made me suddenly realize, in my list msg #1208, on 25.02,
that
"she" was behaving too strangely for being a real person and of course was
just
another Murray cyber ghost - one against which I during a long time had
had no
particular suspicion at all. Murray then had no other reply to this than a
weak
"nope", sent privately to me, which I forwarded to MM and countered with
"Correct answer is YEP, Murr-Murr-Ghosty. I finally gotcha on this one" in
msg
#1211, And that was that, concerning "Norma".
"She" on "her" part of course was not nearly as - potentially - important
as
that "marxist front" person or group "in India", who/which "was
Marxism-interested" and "sought international contact for discussion and
possible co-operation" - as important, politically, I mean, as such a
person or
group would have been, if he or it had existed. But "Norma's" having
appeared -
even if only briefly - on this MM list, which then had still only some 15
members but about whose potential role as an international forum where
those
who really want proletarian revolution can gather and really sort things
out I
do have high hopes, and also "her" being one of the only 9 co-signers of
that
Pakistan petition emanating from this list, these things made me think of
"Norma" as a politically relatively important force internationally.
D) IS IT "SHIT", OR PERHAPS "NOT POLITICS" TO EXPOSE PUBLICLY THE FACT
THAT
THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON OR GROUP "MARXIST FRONT" IN INDIA AS HAS BEEN
MAINTAINED IN SEVERAL POSTINGS TO THIS MAILING LIST AND ALSO ELSEWHERE,
AND
THAT THE PROPOSITION THAT THERE IS A SUCH IS ONLY A STUPID SWINDLE
ATTEMPT,
MORE OR LESS CERTAINLY BY A CERTAIN ALREADY LONG-SINCE GHOSTWRITING
REACTIONARY
SWINE IN THE USA BY THE NAME OF THOMAS P. MURRAY?
What is really *shit* in politics, that's for instance certain statements
by
you, David, such as the one, in message #126 to this list, of 26.08.2007,
that
that most important Marxist and longtime leader of the proletariat, the
former
chairman of the CPC in China, Mao Zedong (1893-1976), was "a traitor[!!]
to the
working class" and " traitor[!!] to socialism".
Since obviously you, politically a bourgeois right-winger and a long-time
adherent of backstabbing Trotskyism, apparently have gotten no other
information on the essentials of the class struggle between the
proletariat and
the bourgeoisie than that from some Trotskyite swine, or possibly,
(likewise)
totally deceived persons, it's possible, I believe, that you don't even
know
how totally wrong and swinish is that proposition.
That, anyway, is a real example of what is *shit* in politics. My exposure
of
this "cyber ghost" of Murray's as precisely a "cyber ghost" precisely is
the
opposite of "shit".
Concerning your other totally wrong statement, that this exposure of mine
is
"not" politics, it needs to be pointed out, of course, that this exposure
certainly *is* politics too.
Politically, I earlier have countered and largely refuted a number of
wrong,
reactionary statements advanced in postings purportedly written by this
"marxist front" "person", or "MF", "in India", respectively, by "our group
marxist front" "in that country" or by "Pratyush" or else "Vijay",
"representing" "that group".
And I also, on one occasion when this was suitable, have entered into
united-front-type co-operation with that person or other entity, under
such
circumstances that there was no compelling reason to believe that "he" or
"it"
did not in fact exist, in India. (In creating the abovementioned Internet
petition to the government of Pakistan.)
My recent action of pointing out that which I have now discovered, the
non-existence, in India, of such a person or group, of course is politics
too.
Had there been a such in India, with his/its professed interest in
international discussion about Marxism and in international co-operation
on the
basis of Marxism - even if a relatively very ignorant such person or group
-
that would have been a quite important positive political fact.
Conversely, it's politically important too that others get to know that
the
so-called "marxist front", or "MF", or "Vijay" or "Pratyush", with the
e-mail
address <marxistfront@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, does *not* represent any such entity
in
India, but is just a swindle attempt, most likely by a certain small-time
but
infamous reactionary swine in the USA.
E) THE VISIBLE RESULTS OF MY EXPOSURE OF "MF" - AS SEEN IN LATER MESSAGES
TO MM
- WHICH HAVE ALSO CONFIRMED THE CORRECTNESS OF THIS EXPOSURE, HAVE BEEN
BOTH
FUNNY AND, I HOPE, ALSO INSTRUCTIVE TO OTHERS.
E1) What was the reaction of "marxist front" "in India" to my saying (in
list
msg #1250, of 02.03) that "he"/"it" was just a "cyber ghost", invented and
managed by a certain reactionary person in the USA?
If "he"/"it" in fact had been genuine, and my maintaining that this was
not the
case thus had been an error, then it would have been to be expected,
wouldn't
it, that "marxist front" would, rather calmly, have pointed out my
mistake, and
perhaps even have written something that might contribute towards
demonstrating, or at least making likely, that I had in fact made a
mistake on
this. He or it would have had no reason to panic, nor, necessarily, any
reason
to treat me - his/its international petition parter and earlier
"relatively
close buddy", then, of just some month ago, for chrissake - who now "so
unfortunately however had misunderstood some things completely", as "an
utter
enemy", just because of that - OK, "rather serious" - "mistake" of mine.
But "MF"'s reaction was, as you and everybody else on this list could and
can
see quite clearly, a quite different one from something like that.
"He"/"it"
(actually, it was a "he" that time, "Vijay") immediately started howling,
most
nervously (in list msg #1254, likewise of 02.03), first only as a
"hypothesis":
"...sometimes I think that you are a CIA agent out there to destroy
communist
unity..."
and later in the same message already "having arrived at certainty":
"... how much money have you been paid by the imperialistic agencies to
desrupt
the Communist groups in the cyberworld..."
and, towards the end, then certainly no longer any "sometimes I think
that...",
but, and in capital letters too:
"COMRADES BEWARE OF THIS CIA AGENT ROLF".
When I replied to this again, in my list msg #1257, simply with "Nice try,
Murr-Murr-Ghostie!", I didn't mean that it was really a "nice" try, in the
perhaps somewhat flattering meaning of a "rather good one on your part,
under
the circumstances", of course, but in the meaning of a "try" that was very
nice
as to helping confirm that exposure that I had just made.
What I meant of course was, that that reply by the Murr-Murr swine was so
schtoopid as clearly and very nicely to confirm, to all others on this
list,
that that which I had maintained, about "marxist front", without then
presenting all that much proof of it, was correct.
Squirming a little more at the exposure of his "MF", Murray in his next
reply,
list msg #1258, simply held on to the line he had arrived at towards the
end of
his earlier, and repeated his attempt at counterattack: "Sure CIA agent
Rolf
(aka imperilaist lackey.....)" - faltering just a little in the last part
of
that sentence, now no longer "being quite certain" that I was as bad and
"professional" a thing as actually "a CIA agent" but "holding open the
possibility" that I was "only" something at least somewhat less nasty,
namely
"an imperialist lackey".
I on my part thought it was fun at this point to ask my reactionary swine
"opponent" in the USA, whom I on my part considered as already -
figuratively
speaking, of course - beaten to a pulp and lying prostrate on the floor,
without a chance of ever getting up from it, concerning what others on the
list
were most likely to judge, about the character and actual location of that
ridiculous "marxist front" swindle attempt entity of his entity "in
India", by
putting the - admittedly rhetorical - question to him, in list message
#1259:
"So who do you think wins, huh, Ghostie?"
E2) It was at this point that you, David, rushed to "the scene of
battle",
and, in your capacity of a Trotskyite "UN Security Council", as already
mentioned, "called a truce"' between us two "warring" but rather "lowly
and
dumb" "mutton-chops", as you expressed it.
You "clearly saw" that the reactionary bourgeois swine Murray, on the one
hand,
and I, doing my best to further the interests of the international
proletariat,
on the other absolutely "should not fight each other" but should obey your
"calling a truce".
A "command" coming a little late in the day too, incidentally, since that
little "war" between us which had "broken out" by Murray's hostile "Who
d'you
think you are, huh, Rolf?"(list msg #1247) had actually already quite in
the
main ended.
It really had ended already with my first "salvo in counterattack" (list
msg
#1259), telling the bourgeois-rightist US Amurrican Murray and all others
that
I had already "made", politically, and GPS-located, geographically, his
little
bastion "marxist front" - situated, according to "its" own false "front
reports", not only "on the left, pro-Marxist side" politically but also,
geographically, "very, very far away, somewhere in that (other) big
country,
India, on the other side of the globe" - as being in fact a
bourgeois-reactionary and very brittle bastion politically, and one in
fact
located under Murray's own desk in "Amurrica", as far as geography was
concerned.
That "first salvo" of mine of course hit that - of course never very big
nor
strong - "marxist front" swindle bastion of Murray's fair and square, and
blew
it to smithereens. Remaining noises coming from it could be only some
desperate
"outcries of anger" from a few "survivors in its ruins", so to speak,
"survivors" not even really needing to be "mopped up" by my victorious
"cyberghostbusting" forces.
"A truce", might I be interested in, in that situation, do you think,
David?
The voice of your Trotskyite "UN Security Council", "calling",
"commanding" a
such - in particular in that situation which there was - do you really
think
that I might do anything about [that] than just laugh my head off at it,
"peacekeeping" Dino?
My standpoint on such matters of course, on principle, and that which I'm
recommending to all allies which I may have, remains that of demanding
*unconditional surrender* of the bourgeois-reactionary forces. This also
at
such fronts, in the class struggle, where these so far are stronger, even
incomparably so, than those forces of the proletariat which I'm
considering
myself to be a part of.
And this "war" between me and Murray over "marxist front" of course was
(or is)
only a very small one. Please don't consider my writing now (again) so
many
lines about it as meaning I think it was anything else.
I'm writing at such length about it now for purposes of instruction, for
showing how, in my judgment, later and perhaps much bigger battles, of
basically the same type, against such bourgeois-reactionary swine forces,
and
against any "volunteering" helpers of theirs too, if necessary, should be
fought.
E3) Your "swinging into action" so quickly and with such obviously
heartfelt
concern, regarding the matter of this little "Rolf-Murray" battle, David,
was a
quite notable, in fact instructive, thing in this connection. Some "shit"
were
both of us engaging in, you said - using a rather strong word here - and
you
called on both of us, or rather, demanded, in the pretty peremptory tenor
of
that Trotskyite "UN Security Council" made up by you.
Judging by your speed and tenor here, one might think, perhaps, that it
was
some Trotskyite "countrymen" of yours who were being mauled here, by one
of the
parts in that conflict.
But no, that, true enough, false-flagged small "marxist front" bastion, at
its
purported location "somewhere in India", clearly has never hoisted any
flag of
Trotskyism, nor something very closely resembling a such. In some articles
rather early on after its first appearance, in early December 2007,
"he"/"it",
on the contrary - irrespective of the fact that some of these articles, as
"MF"
said "him"/"it"self, were not written by "MF" but were borrowed stuff that
"MF"
was just recommending to others - rather strongly hinted at a "support of
the
line of Mao Zedong", a line which very much is opposed to Trotskyism, of
course.
Then what was it that, so strongly, attracted your (attempted) support?
I think it was the phenomenon of *another* attempt at stabbing the
proletarian
revolution in the back, by means of some political swindling, - another
attempt, that is, than that of which your own ideology, Trotskyism,
consists,
and a backstabbing and swindling attempt parallel to that ideology - that
caught your attention and made you rush to its support.
Long experience, from many countries, has shown that what various -
dyed-in-the-wool - representatives of different phony"Marxist" political
current above all can agree on between themselves, that's their common,
fanatical, opposition to anything that smells of *genuine*, actual,
Marxism.
Thus they quite willingly may join hands, despite differences over other
matters, precisely in such situations where any of those actually
bourgeois-right-wing forces is at risk of being exposed, by a utilization
of
this ideology of the proletariat.
That, I'm rather certain, is the explanation of this otherwise somewhat
surprising constellation of:
"Trotsky-Adhering David + Openly-Bourgeois-Reactionary Murray = True".
Or, you on your part probably were (or are) not viewing this - in fact
existing
- constellation quite in that manner, David, since, quite possibly, you
did (or
do) not agree with my maintaining that "marxist front" had/has been
exposed as
another "cyber ghost" managed by Murray. But that there has arisen, at
least, a
constellation of:
"Trotsky-Adhering David + (More-Or-Less)-Mao-Zedong-Propagandizing
'marxist
front' = True",
this you must be seeing yourself; this you can hardly deny, even to
yourself.
And against what or whom is that constellation or coalition directed?
Against
Marxism, of course. Or, most immediately and directly, against me, Rolf -
aka
"Monk" (that US variant of "Sherlock", approximately, which you so
flatteringly
introduced as a nickname for me).
And most ridiculously too, since of course nobody or nothing can make that
"marxist front" cyber puppet of of Murray's, already knocked out
completely and
totally by me, ever rise up from "his"/"its" ruins again.
E3) More fun still of course was Murray's *accepting* that "truce" of
yours!
After his "marxism front" puppet had already "warned everybody", in "its"
list
msg #1254:
"COMRADES BEWARE OF THIS CIA AGENT ROLF",
and had held on to that (more or less so, at least), in "its" list msg
#1258
too, with:
"Sure CIA agent Rolf (aka imperilaist lackey.....)",
then, in list msg #1267, "it" suddenly turns away from that, and says:
"Ok a truce But it should be from both side..."
A truce, with that "*CIA agent*", me, of whom it just recently was "so
vital"
for "MF" that "comrades beware"! What was "he"/"it" thinking of, when now,
obviously, agreeing to *cease* all such warnings to other list members
and/or
still other people, and thus in reality exposing them all to, leaving them
without any protection at all to, those "nasty horridnesses", which "MF"
"knows" are to be expected from me!
A an impossible shilly and shally concerning this "earlier pointed-to
danger",
that's what the other MM list members were getting from "MF".
And in yet a later posting, list msg #1278, of yesterday 04.03, there is a
shilly again by Murray, through his "MF" - no longer any "truce" (upheld
on
"its" part at least, perhaps) and no longer any "CIA agent Rolf", and just
some
very much weaker (than the earlier) swinish stuff directed against me:
"Very
good Rolf keep it up and continue to dream....." and blabla, plus - now at
long
last - at least one, though very feeble, attempt at "confirming" the
"existence", "somewhere in India", of a "marxist front", by means of a
purported "message" to Taimur Rahman in Pakistan, which Murray insists
"did
come from MF", and "not", of course from under his own desk in "good old
Amurrica".
Even more ridiculous than your so wholehearted attempt, David, to help it
up
from the floor where it belongs, are that reactionary scumbag swine Murray
and
his schtoopid "Indian" "marxist front" (etc) flying cyber ghost circus. It
did
take some months, in this case,before they finally got the ice axe. But
such
forces always will get the ice axe sooner or later, and never will cause
much
trouble for the actual Marx adherents either, once you know approximately
how
most suitably to deal with them.
Rolf
--- In modern_marxism@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"David Walters" <dave.walters@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>
> I call a truce between both you mutton-chops. Cut the shit and stick to
politics!
>
> David
DEBATE POSTING 12 OF 17
Message #1295
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:57 pm
From: "David Walters" <dave.walters@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: FRSO: Some Points on the Mass Line [David W. "calls a truce",
thinks "shit"]
So...you wrote about 200 paragraphs in reply to my one humorous point
about a
cease fire. At least you got that it was "humorous". It also proves that
my
good friend Rolf has entirely WAY too much time on his hands. I write this
up
to the generally shorter days in Malmo. I started only reading the Rolf vs
Marxist Front "polemic" AS it got to be more adjectives than substance.
David
DEBATE POSTING 13 OF 17
Message #1296
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 5:09 pm
From: "David Walters" <dave.walters@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Mazdoor Mahaz [plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India"
etc]
I don't believe list Monk Moderator "gets" it....he doesn't really write
polemics against MF more than he writes tomes. I have not the slightest
clue to
what MF and The Monk were writing about (no much less care) but, it seemed
to
be taking up far too much space on this list which is otherwise more
topical
and interesting. Ergo, I called a "truce". Oh well.
When the *backstabbing Mao* was toasting Tricky Dick Nixon in 1972, about
5,000
Vietnamese an hour were being atomized into nothingness by US B-52s. NOT A
WORD
about the US imperialist assault on the anti-imperialist forces in Hanoi
crossed either one's lips. I was curious if the champaign was of a
particularly
good vintage as to divert these two world leaders from the massacre on was
perpetrating on the Vietnamese and other other from ignoring altogether.
The super-duper archive reactionary position that the USSR was "main enemy
of
the world" that Mao hoisted on his followers (and caused, fortunately, the
basic destruction of the Maoist influence in many countries in the world,
most
notably in Africa) should [have] been obvious to even the rather
politically
isolated forces in northern Europe. Alas, it skipped some areas. In the US
it
allowed for Mao-adhering groups to SUPPORT US imperialism, thus heralding
their
crossing a CLASS LINE out of the left in the forces of reaction. The more
sane
Maoist adherents knew when to "cut and run". It did, at least, FREEZE
their
brains for period.
Now...the FRSO traces it's roots to the Revolutionary Workers
Headquarters,
which split or was expelled from the Gang-of-Four Loving Bob "I Am Mao"
Avakian
in 1975 or so. I believe base-ball bats were employed and several
soon-to-be
not-members of the RCP were sent to the hospital. What then is the FRSO's
view
of these, the waning days of the Cultural Revolution when the Great
Helmsman
was welcoming arch-imperialist reactionary
lead-of-the-pack-of-genocidal-running-dogs to the Forbidden City?
David
DEBATE POSTING 14 OF 17
Message #1297
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:22 pm
From: marxist front <marxistfront@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: FRSO: Some Points on the Mass Line [David W. "calls a truce",
thinks "shit"]
Last reply to Rolf,
In the beginning rolf had admired our Paper of Marx and Globalisation.
then we had a discussion on Mao where it was still progressing and we had
asked
for some time to reply to Rolf's Unite!
Then suddenly rolf you told us revisionist and that's because we had said
we
would work with David...a trots and we have serious difference rather a
difference which can never end.
We asked you whom you consider as Marxist as we have not seen any posting
from
you on either MLL or MM(UR own gp) praising any party (UR stand on CMKP
---no
idea)
In fact based on ur suggestion we dropped writting MF and started giving
our
first name...why at this time we cannot reveal our true identiy on Net is
something we cannot tell you but people whith whom we are in close contact
knows us well
And last you sudden revealing of our parent ----made all of us who are
trying
to understand the world Events from ML perspective---our motto
(www.geocities.com/marxistfront) go back and see the face of our parents
(thanks that we live with them, and they are all hail and hearty) but
found all
of them to be of indian look and name...who have not even ventured out of
the
state how they could come to know a land called US.
Anyways rolf we have snet you an individual mail and this one is for MM so
as
to clarify our position,
We would continue to be on MM but would unfortunately not participate in
any
discussion till our rolf finds our true (Indian) Identity!
We do not Expect any reply as we are not going to debate on this issue any
further even though Rolf may think he has busted another Murray
Regards
Vijay for MF
foreanaer1995 <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Hello David "Dino" Walters,
Your comment here is both funny and instructive - this last, I hope,
to all other members of this list, and with some luck, perhaps even
to you yourself.
....
DEBATE POSTING 15 OF 17
Message #1302
Date: Sat Mar 8, 2008 3:17 pm
From: "Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Mazdoor Mahaz [plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India"
etc]
[Note, 14.03.2008: This posting of mine, like the debate posting 09 above,
was
a reply sent privately to Taimur Rahman <redpak2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> and also
Cc-ed
to the MM list. - RM]
Yes, that "MF", or "marxist front", <marxistfront@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, "in
India",
Taimur, has the misfortune of not even existing!
It's neither a "he", thus, nor a "she", nor (really) even an "it".
That's what I've concluded, Taimur, and have considered as nicely
confirmed by
several replies by this stupid Murray ghostwriting person (in the USA) to
my
exposure of that particular "cyber ghost" invented and handled by him too.
Of course, everybody else including you must make up their own minds as to
assessment of this.
I think you'll draw the same conclusion as I, however, if you read all the
postings to the MM list "from" the so-called "MF" ("marxist front") after
list
message #1250, of 02.03, which contained my saying that the postings of
"MF"
were ghostwritten by one since long (since 1996, at least) rather infamous
multi-ghostwriting retired teacher and small-time crook in the USA by the
name
of Thomas P. Murray, of whom I happen to have some particular experience.
And it seems that you still haven't gotten used to the phenomenon, or
possibility, of there behind a certain e-mail address not necessarily
being a
concrete person (or group) fitting "his"/"its" description of
"him"/"it"self at
all, since you keep writing "this MF person".
There *isn't* any "MF" person (in India, for instance - that is, no such
as
would fit the description of "MF" sent from the e-mail address
<marxistfront@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>) That - true enough - India-based, that is,
Indian-company-based or Indian-company-branch-based) address is - I've
concluded with what I think is sufficient certainty - is just one which
has
been acquired by that small-time scum in the USA, Murray. That's the same
person who also has created, as a "cyber ghost", that likewise
non-existing
"ex-military man" "Mark Scott", with the e-mail address
<mn1scott@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
with "whom" you had that interesting debate in late December / early
January,
in which you refuted that "person's" stupid and nasty nonsense completely.
You were not "boxing" then against a real person but only against a "cyber
ghost", you see.
In my opinion, there's really no need to "break off relations" which such
a
"cyber ghost", just because "he", "she" or "it" is a "cyber ghost".
Now I, for instance, have not replied to any of the latest postings from
"marxist front", in which."he" has advanced that theory that I "am a CIA
agent"
etc.
"He"/"it" "him"/"it"self", that is, "marxist front" cannot be held
responsible
for this since "he"/"it" is just a "cyber ghost", and thus doesn't even
have
any fingers to press keyboard tangents with, but must rely on Murray for
doing
so for "him"/"it".
In another context in late 2003 / early 2004, I suggested to several such
"cyber ghosts" invented and managed by another reactionary prankster using
the
same method, in Swedish, as Murray since long has been doing in English
since a
long time back, that they *unite* and form a kind of *trade union*, up/out
there in cyber space, and protest to their master against his treating
them
just like slaves.
This was really intended as a little joke, of course, but it was intended
to
show others - likewise, like you, unaccustomed to the fact that behind
certain
"name tags" there are no persons at all but just a bit of basically empty
cyber
space - what was going on. I do feel sorry for all such cyber ghosts who
are
languishing "out there", with never once a chance, even, at ever acquiring
the
corporal means to express any opinions or feelings of their own.
It's that "boss" or "slaveowner" of a whole company (or even more) "cyber
ghosts", Murray, and others like him, whom one should expose and fight in
such
context, I hold.
The inventing of imaginary "persons" actually has a long history. If I
don't
remember wrongly, already Galileo Galilei did that, for instance, did
that, so
as two have two "debaters" in a "dialogue" about that then new,
heliocentric,
theory in astronomy. Only, he never pretended that his inventions were
real, or
had them insult you, for instance, Taimur. These imaginary persons,
hundreds of
years ago, were much nicer than the present-day "Mark Scott", "marxist
front"
etc.
But again: There's no need to pay much attention to ghosts of that type -
and
no need to avoid talking to "them" either. They cannot harm you, and I had
to
laugh when a certain Trotskyite who's a member too of the MM list, David
"Dino"
Walters (with whom I'm actually engaging in some co-operation too, on a
united-front basis, concerning certain other matters) tried to protect
that
"cyber ghost" "marxist front" from being exposed. It turns out that
they're
(bourgeois-reactionary) soulmates! David is a little luckier than his
colleague
and close friend, "marxist front", though, in that he has a human body (or
I at
least think he has one), and thus, theoretically, can change his mind and
turn
into a Marx adherent instead of continuing to be just (basically) a
swindling,
reactionary entity.
Speaking of imaginary persons or other entities: There's a very good
picture of
some rather well-known such, at the website
http://www.healtoronto.com/myths.html:
"Myths and Mysteries of HIV and
AIDS".
With a nice picture, "Great myth conceptions of the 20th century", showing
Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Man in the Moon, Sherlock Holmes,
Big-Foot,
the Stork and last but not least, that horrible monster, H.I.V.
Rolf M.
Malmö, Sweden
www.rolf-martens.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Taimur Rahman" <redpak2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Mazdoor Mahaz [plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India"
etc]
> If this MF person is really an impostor, then we will not have any more
relations with him.
>
> Taimur
DEBATE POSTING 16 OF 17
Message #1303
Date: Sat Mar 8, 2008 7:39 pm
From: "David Walters" <dave.walters@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Mazdoor Mahaz [plus some stuff on "marxist front" "in India"
etc]
The assumption is that David W.(me) and MF "work together". Except for
areas of
mutual, but non-polemical agreement (the MIA, for example) my relationship
with
MF is no different than it is with Rolf "The Monk" M.
My wanting to call a 'truce' is based on that the so-called "polemics" was
nothing of the sort, rather it was simply name-calling. To this day I
don't
have a clue of the politics of MF. I don't know who is a 'real'
"Mao-adherent"
and who isn't, and couldn't care. So Rolf "The Monk" M. is casing false
accusations that I "defend" "support" or is otherwise a "soul-mate" of
MF...especially as I only very briefly skimmed any of the polemics. That
MF was
being "smashed" by Monk is neither here nor there as I couldn't, wouldn't,
nor
even try to figure out if this was true. I just found the whole thing
rather
cumbersome on this, Rolf's list.
David
[NOTE: *Debate posting 17 of 17* is reproduced above, before the other
debate
postings and immediately after the intro note. - RM]
_____________________
Message posted by:
Rolf Martens
Malmö, Sweden
Phone and fax:
+46 - 40 - 124832;
rolf.martens@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
