On Sat, 24 May 2008 03:05:11 -0700 (PDT), crisology <crisology@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>On May 18, 1:01 am, dh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 18:01:30 GMT, "sumbeotch at s***bum dot ***"
<youwantmya...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> >you do realize that many vegan foods have casein in it? you know
that
>> >comes from an animal?
>
>If the food is labeled as "vegan" it shouldn't have casein in it. I
>think you're talking about the "non-dairy" label which vegans
>naturally assume is without casein.
>
>> The meat industry
>
>Is largely government subsidized.
Good for all of us.
>> provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats.
>
>Well, it's a little different process in the wild..
Yes. In the wild the animals never have food provided
so they often have to struggle and suffer over food. They
also have to do so over territory, and are often provide
with no shelter or safety from the elements or predators.
They also often suffer from fear their entire lives, in contrast
to most livestock who never live in fear at all. Etc...
>> People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>
>What could be healthier with a lower impact on ecology than to grow at
>least some of your own organic food? I have edible fruit/gr*****/
>leaves or veg in my yard every day of the yr.
That certainly does nothing to help any livestock.
>A lot of the fruit I
>grow are native species/easy to grow. I only harvest what I eat
>immediately/nothing wasted & I don't mind sharing w/native scavengers.
>I'm fortunate to live during a time that I can also obtain a large
>variety of species of fruit trees that produce fruit with short shelf
>lives (otherwise never found in stores). The vast area needed for cow
>grazing isn't nearly as efficient, natural or healthy. No need/no
>place for the extra excrement in my yard from any cow processing
>industry.
>
>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings.
>
>For the "conscientious consumers of animal products" What do the
>calves get?
Life, and whatever experiences go along with it.
>Matter is neither created nor destroyed.
Do you think life is?
>> Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
>
>You don't get the same amounts of available animal byproducts from
>grass fed cows since they take up to 4 yrs longer to raise. The prices
>of all the plywood, fertilizers, pesticides, etc (from animals) would
>increase 4-fold. The grass fed cow eating industry would soon be
>subsidized at least as much as the current feedlot industry.
Okay.
>Are you comparing organic meat to non-organic veg too? Cow (non-
>native) grazing "habitat" requires vast areas of land
Land on which wildlife has been MUCH more welcome than in
crop fields with every farmer I've ever discussed it with. In fact,
the farmers I've discussed it with have been happy and appeared
sort of proud to see deer in grazing with their cattle, while those
same farmers would be bothered to the point of wanting to kill
them when they got in their crop fields. Things like that don't
matter to supposedly ethical veg*ns, but they matter a great deal
to the humans and other animals who are involved.
>while a fraction
>of the natural predators (coyote/native cats, etc) surviving today are
>already being out competed/extinguished without much protection for
>this reason.
Good.
>Grass fed cow slaughtering businesses are not as
>unhealthy/unsustainable as feedlot cow businesses but it's impractical
That depends entirely on how it's done.
>& still a compromise to picking local apples/pawpaws/blueberries, etc.
>
>Hunting for a reason to hunt while grazing,
>Chris
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