On May 5, 12:16 am, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Blue wrote:
> > Viejo Vizcacha wrote:
> >> On May 3, 9:31 pm, sizy_one <sim...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >>> Only tyrants and oligarchs together with die hard fascists left over
> >>> from WW11 and out of date Marxists cream in their pants when the eu
> >>> is mentioned.
>
> >> Not really. Anyone who is familiar with European history, knows very
> >> well that Europeans were at each other throats for thousands of
> >> years, and after WWII a few of them got together to start the EU,
> >> with the basic objective of avoiding wars. Only war mongers and
> >> suckers of Yankee cock would like to go back to the bad old days.
>
> > It goes something like, no one under 50 has had a vote on Europe.
>
> Nor on most things that form part of UK law and society. We don't revote
> things everytime a new generation is born you know.
It's not a 'revote' if what you are voting on is substantially
different from that which you voted on previously.
>
> > When we did get a vote it was for some called the 'common market'.
>
> No it was called the European Economic Community.
And did not involve political or monetary union.
>
> > Since then, with out any more referendum it's snowballed from
> > some market to some united states of Europe.
>
> I hardly think 'snowballed' is the apposite word. It has been a long and
> difficult process for the EU to get where it is.
>
> > A vote on this ever changing body is long overdue.
> > Especially as this new treaty will allow polictians to totally
> > ingor the British public. No more treaties will be needed.
> > We will giving Europe permision to make new laws as it pleases.
>
> In case you are not aware of it, which you seem not to be, European laws
> are suggested by the representatives of the member countries, including
> the UK of course, and voted on by democratically elected MEPs.
>
> > This is the last fight. That's why after this treaty was rejected
> > so often it came back with a different name and the leaders just
> > decided they wouldn't put it to the people of their respective
> > nations.
>
> The Lisbon treaty has never been rejected. The proposed Constitution was
> rejected. If you can't get your facts straight then sod off for you
> have nothing useful to say.
>
>
>
> > You mention America as though forign inffluence is a bad thing.
>
> And you mention the EU in exactly the same terms. Do make up your mind.
>
> > Well that being so, European nations that out number Britain
> > in many places including voting rights
>
> One nation only outnumbers the UK in voting rights and that is Germany
> for the simple reason that its population is about a fifth greater.
>
> > will go from 75% control
> > of Britain to a 100%. How can you say US influence is worse
> > than European total control is beyond me.
>
> I'd rather any eventuial outside influence come from people who share
> the same culture, not from a land 5000 kilometres away that shares very
> little of our outlook on the world and is pretty ignorant on the whole.
Britain has more in common with the US than most of Europe.
>
> > The 'common market' vote may well have been a pretext to peace
> > in Europe, it's long term goal may well have been to make
> > Britain some Switzerland. However, if Britian is to wave the
> > white flag in the face of a European take over. Because that's
> > what it is. We are saying no more fights, we're waving the white flag.
>
> Tosh, and BTW Britain is a large island that forms the major part of the
> United Kingdom which includes this island, the offshore islands and
> Northern Ireland. Britain is not the UK
>
> > If that is the case, then that is the argument that should be put
> > to the people. We should have a referendum and our surrender to
> > Europe.
>
> Only you and your loony friends consider it surrender, normal people
> consider it political and social progress.
How is it political or social progress to devolve power further and
further away from the individual?
>
> > Otherwise the politcial elite will be know for ever more as
> > those who sold Britain out, from under our noses, for our 'own good'.
> > And they will be forever more hated for it.
>
> Dream on.
>
> > Once you have politicians taking power out of the poeple's hands
> > where does it end. It was not the common people who wanted to
> > fight others, it was when they were told to do so by their 'leaders'.
>
> That's the way it has always been, the 'people' wield no direct power,
> they just vote for others to do so on their behalf.
>
> > If the three main parties have so stitched up the system in Britain
> > as to sell our souls to the Europeans then the people need some
> > political monopolies commision.
>
> They can vote for the BNP or UKIP of course, or some other loony party
> of
> that ilk. Oh silly me, they have just done so with the magnificent
> result of a whole ten or so council seats gained out of several thousand
> possibles. Obvious then that the people of the United Kingdom think they
> are the best thing since sliced bread.
>
> Bwahahaha
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