On May 4, 10:16 pm, Maria <i...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 5, 12:16 am, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Blue wrote:
> > > Viejo Vizcacha wrote:
> > >> On May 3, 9:31 pm, sizy_one <sim...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > >>> Only tyrants and oligarchs together with die hard fascists left
over
> > >>> from WW11 and out of date Marxists cream in their pants when the
eu
> > >>> is mentioned.
>
> > >> Not really. Anyone who is familiar with European history, knows
very
> > >> well that Europeans were at each other throats for thousands of
> > >> years, and after WWII a few of them got together to start the EU,
> > >> with the basic objective of avoiding wars. Only war mongers and
> > >> suckers of Yankee cock would like to go back to the bad old days.
>
> > > It goes something like, no one under 50 has had a vote on Europe.
>
> > Nor on most things that form part of UK law and society. We don't
revote
> > things everytime a new generation is born you know.
>
> It's not a 'revote' if what you are voting on is substantially
> different from that which you voted on previously.
>
>
>
> > > When we did get a vote it was for some called the 'common market'.
>
> > No it was called the European Economic Community.
>
> And did not involve political or monetary union.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Since then, with out any more referendum it's snowballed from
> > > some market to some united states of Europe.
>
> > I hardly think 'snowballed' is the apposite word. It has been a long
and
> > difficult process for the EU to get where it is.
>
> > > A vote on this ever changing body is long overdue.
> > > Especially as this new treaty will allow polictians to totally
> > > ingor the British public. No more treaties will be needed.
> > > We will giving Europe permision to make new laws as it pleases.
>
> > In case you are not aware of it, which you seem not to be, European
laws
> > are suggested by the representatives of the member countries,
including
> > the UK of course, and voted on by democratically elected MEPs.
>
> > > This is the last fight. That's why after this treaty was rejected
> > > so often it came back with a different name and the leaders just
> > > decided they wouldn't put it to the people of their respective
> > > nations.
>
> > The Lisbon treaty has never been rejected. The proposed Constitution
was
> > rejected. If you can't get your facts straight then sod off for you
> > have nothing useful to say.
>
> > > You mention America as though forign inffluence is a bad thing.
>
> > And you mention the EU in exactly the same terms. Do make up your
mind.
>
> > > Well that being so, European nations that out number Britain
> > > in many places including voting rights
>
> > One nation only outnumbers the UK in voting rights and that is Germany
> > for the simple reason that its population is about a fifth greater.
>
> > > will go from 75% control
> > > of Britain to a 100%. How can you say US influence is worse
> > > than European total control is beyond me.
>
> > I'd rather any eventuial outside influence come from people who share
> > the same culture, not from a land 5000 kilometres away that shares
very
> > little of our outlook on the world and is pretty ignorant on the
whole.
>
> Britain has more in common with the US than most of Europe.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > The 'common market' vote may well have been a pretext to peace
> > > in Europe, it's long term goal may well have been to make
> > > Britain some Switzerland. However, if Britian is to wave the
> > > white flag in the face of a European take over. Because that's
> > > what it is. We are saying no more fights, we're waving the white
flag.
>
> > Tosh, and BTW Britain is a large island that forms the major part of
the
> > United Kingdom which includes this island, the offshore islands and
> > Northern Ireland. Britain is not the UK
>
> > > If that is the case, then that is the argument that should be put
> > > to the people. We should have a referendum and our surrender to
> > > Europe.
>
> > Only you and your loony friends consider it surrender, normal people
> > consider it political and social progress.
>
> How is it political or social progress to devolve power further and
> further away from the individual?
>
I guess you have not noticed, but the age of individualism is quickly
approaching its end. There are only few options left:
1) Global government, which itself can be democratically elected, or
the government of oligarchs, or
2) Multiple warlords that will have control of some space, and who
will be constantly fighting each other.
The age of each individual freely making personal choices regardless
how they will affect the rest of the planet is now in its last
breaths.
VV
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