On May 5, 12:16=A0am, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Blue wrote:
> > Viejo Vizcacha wrote:
> >> On May 3, 9:31 pm, sizy_one <sim...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >>> Only tyrants and oligarchs together with die hard fascists left over
> >>> from WW11 and out of date Marxists cream in their pants when the eu
> >>> is mentioned.
>
> >> Not really. Anyone who is familiar with European history, knows very
> >> well that Europeans were at each other throats for thousands of
> >> years, and after WWII a few of them got together to start the EU,
> >> with the basic objective of avoiding wars. Only war mongers and
> >> suckers of Yankee cock would like to go back to the bad old days.
>
> > It goes something like, no one under 50 has had a vote on Europe.
>
> Nor on most things that form part of UK law and society. We don't revote
> things everytime a new generation is born you know.
>
> > When we did get a vote it was for some called the 'common market'.
>
> No it was called the European Economic Community.
A government pamphlet at the time of the referendum said "This
pamphlet is being sent by the Government to every household in
Britain. We hope that it will help you to decide how to cast your vote
in the coming Referendum on the European Community (Common Market)."
> > Since then, with out any more referendum it's snowballed from
> > some market to some united states of Europe.
>
> I hardly think 'snowballed' is the apposite word. It has been a long and
> difficult process for the EU to get where it is.
It has 'snowballed'. Snowballs get bigger by adding to the core. The
EU has increased its powers by the use of acquis communitaire. Once
it has powers, it never gives them up, just gradually takes over in
more and more areas.
> > A vote on this ever changing body is long overdue.
> > Especially as this new treaty will allow polictians to totally
> > ingor the British public. No more treaties will be needed.
> > We will giving Europe permision to make new laws as it pleases.
>
> In case you are not aware of it, which you seem not to be, European laws
> are suggested by the representatives of the member countries, including
> the UK of course, and voted on by democratically elected MEPs.
=93EU=92s Lisbon Treaty Means Dictator****p=94
by Lord Christopher Monckton
With the fall of the Berlin Wall, the Communist species of fascism has
spread westward by stealth to infect the European Union, whose complex
treaties=97now hated and feared by the overtaxed, over-regulated peoples
of Europe=97more closely parallel the Soviet Constitution than they do
any constitution of liberty or democracy. . . .
The new =93President of Europe=94 (it may well be Tony Blair, who did his
best to buy the job at UK taxpayers=92 expense by agreeing to increase
the UK=92s tribute to the dismal empire of Brussels by a staggering $50
billion a year) will have all the powers of the General Secretary of
the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The European Commission, like
the Politburo to which it is functionally identical, has the sole
power to propose and hence to reject European legislation. Like the
Politburo, it is unelected and self-perpetuating. Any Commissioner
(and it is neither joke nor coincidence that the German word for
=93Commissioner=94 is =93Kommissar=94) has the power to issue an edict
which=
has the immediate force of supreme law throughout the subject
territories, no longer known as =93member States=94 but as
=93regions=94=97
effectively, regional Soviets subsidiary to, and now utterly
subservient to, the Supreme Soviet in Brussels. The European
Parliament, like the Duma or People=92s Congress of the Soviet Union,
has no power to propose legislation, and its decisions can be (and
often are) overridden by the Kommissars.
The Parliaments of the =93regions,=94 such as the UK Parliament, have no
power to amend or reject any of the Kommissars=92 edicts, whose
undemocratic nature may be deduced from their official name
=97=94Directives.=94 On 200 occasions in the past decade alone, the
legislative scrutiny committee of the House of Commons has rejected
European directives, but the functionally-Communist regional
gauleiters Blair and [British Prime Minister Gordon] Brown have
enacted every one of the Directives, regardless of the will of the
people=92s elected representatives.
Civil Rights Trampled
As of last December, the power which I once had as a Deputy Lieutenant
of London to order the troops on to the streets to assist in civil
emergencies or disasters was taken away by order of a Kommissar, and
Britain no longer has the legal right put her army on to her own
streets without that Kommissar=92s express permission. As of this year,
under the pretext of compliance with a European anti-terrorist
Directive, the right to a fair trial before a properly-constituted and
impartial court was abolished in the UK for any criminal case defined
as =93serious=94: and even offences as trivial as dropping litter in
public places are now treated by the regional gauleiters as serious.
Without a hearing, without the right of legal representation, the
gauleiters can imprison any UK citizen for five years at a time,
confiscate his house, freeze his bank accounts, close or compulsorily
take over any business which he may own, or extradite him to any
overseas country (including the most unspeakable dictator****ps) even
in the absence of any prima facie evidence whatsoever against him.
The news media say little about any of this, for it is now regarded as
almost an offense to speak out against the gauleiters or against the
European dictator****p, which in any event deploys an annual propaganda
budget of $2.5 billion =97 an amount of which the late Dr. Goebbels
could only dream. The BBC alone received $300 million from the
Kommissars last year. It very seldom utters a word of criticism
against the European Union. What do the British people think about
this?
The few who know about it =97 and it is no coincidence that they are the
same few who know what a false and dishonest scam the =93global warming=94
scare is=97are horrified. The people as a whole are now so uneasy about
what is happening that, even though few know the full details, they
are now making it clear in every opinion poll that they do not want
the Lisbon Treaty. Indeed, it is now certain that if there were a
referendum on the Treaty in the UK, it would be cru****ngly defeated.
The two functionally-Communist parties in the regional legislature at
Westminster=97the majority Labour party and the =93Liberal=94
=93Democrats=
=94=97
each made written promises in their manifestoes for the last national
elections that they would give the British people a referendum on the
Treaty before it was ratified.
Recently, the leader****ps of both parties, knowing that any referendum
would reject the Treaty overwhelmingly, have accordingly reneged on
their promises, and samizdat debates are now being held on the
question whether their failure to honor those promises and their
consequent transfer of our own elected representatives=92 powers to the
unelected hands of the alien power that the European Union has become
constitutes treason.
It is indeed treason: but the UK courts are now mere rubber-stamps for
the dictators. In the British constitution, the largest body of
Members of Parliament not belonging to the governing party used to be
known as =93Her Majesty=92s Loyal Opposition.=94 However, the Conservative
Party under its current weak, vapid, and policy-averse leader****p has
consistently failed to oppose the inexorable and soon-to-be-final
extinction of what was once our democracy. In the absence of any
Parliamentary opposition, millions of Britain=92s leading minds have
already fled overseas, taking their wealth and their talent with them,
in a brain drain not seen since the ghastly days of Harold Wilson and
the dominance of the Communist-led trades unions. I myself spent ten
years overseas, but have recently returned and shall be doing my best
to fight to regain my nation=92s independence and democratic liberties.
Britain Now a Police State
Britain is now a closed country=97a police state, with a Secret Police
to rival the KGB. Our Secret Police was secretly founded by the
present Government in 1998, and now its privileged and untouchable
members mount dawn raids just like the KGB and then lie through their
teeth in court to secure convictions against any citizen who has
offended the regional gauleiters or the European Kommissars. There are
=93security=94 cameras every few inches=97more of them than in any other
nation. At current rates of growth, there will be a =93security=94 camera
for every UK citizen within a decade. In a sinister sequence of more
than 90 criminal justice Bills in ten years, the present Government
has removed every last one of the rights and freedoms of which Britain
was once justly proud.. We are no longer allowed even to demonstrate
outside Parliament. It was the ninetieth of those Bills=97passed with
very little attempt at opposition=97that took away the right of criminal
trial.
Now, our =93leaders=94 fawn as sycophantically upon our new, grim,
European masters as their predecessors once did during the long and
foolish period of appeasement that tempted Hitler to rearm unopposed
and then to provoke the Second World War. This time, though, it is
sycophancy by stealth. Not so long ago, a UK Cabinet Minister who
refused to sign a European =93Directive=94 was told by his own civil
servants that if he did not sign it he could and would be stripped of
his office and have all his possessions confiscated. Instead of
resigning and going public, he cravenly and secretly signed. His story
has never been made public. Another UK Cabinet Minister, who had
agreed with a Directive and had written to congratulate the Kommissars
on it, was summoned to Brussels and told that, although all the
=93regions=94 and the European Parliament had agreed the Directive, the
Kommissars of Europe (who had proposed it, for they alone have the
power to do so) had decided that it was not of any consequence and
that it would not be enacted into law. When the astonished Minister
was asked why, he was told that the Kommissars had wanted to make it
clear to elected Ministers in all of the =93regions=94 where the real
power in Europe now lay=97and it was not in their elected hands. He told
me, =93I had once been wholeheartedly in favor of the European Union.
But it was at that moment that the scales fell from my eyes.=94 He died
an implacable opponent of the new Europe.
And my own view? I am in favor of European democracy, and therefore
firmly opposed to the atheistic-humanist, bureaucratic-centralist
dictator****p that the European Union for which I once voted has so
stealthily become.. In Scotland, where the current =93regional=94
gauleiter wants us to be independent of Westminster (which makes one
tenth of our laws) but still subject to the dismal empire of Brussels
(which makes nine-tenths of our laws), I lead a small but rapidly-
growing movement in the Highlands and Islands which is aiming for
independence from both Edinburgh and Brussels, but continuing loyalty
to the Crown. We want our freedom back, and we are quietly planning to
take it back, whether the gauleiters of the UK or the dictators of
Europe like it or not. We will rise up and be a nation again.
Let freedom ring!
> > This is the last fight. That's why after this treaty was rejected
> > so often it came back with a different name and the leaders just
> > decided they wouldn't put it to the people of their respective
> > nations.
>
> The Lisbon treaty has never been rejected. The proposed Constitution was
> rejected. If you can't get your facts straight then sod off for you
> have nothing useful to say.
Are you naive, ignorant, or a liar? European leaders have said that
the two are virtually the same - some 96% - the differences are
insignificant, and they have said that the reason the new measure was
called a treaty rather than a constitution was simply to avoid having
to have the referendums that were promised on a 'constitution'. If it
looks like a constitution, acts like a constitution, is treated like a
constitution, then it IS a constitution. Or, as some German said of
the European army, which a British politician had called something
else for his British audience because he didn't want to admit there
was an EU army, "You can call it Margaret or Mary, but it's still a
European Army".
> > You mention America as though forign inffluence is a bad thing.
>
> And you mention the EU in exactly the same terms. Do make up your mind.
>
> > Well that being so, European nations that out number Britain
> > in many places including voting rights
>
> One nation only outnumbers the UK in voting rights and that is Germany
> for the simple reason that its population is about a fifth greater.
>
> > will go from 75% control
> > of Britain to a 100%. How can you say US influence is worse
> > than European total control is beyond me.
>
> I'd rather any eventuial outside influence =A0come from people who share
> the same culture, not from a land 5000 kilometres away that shares very
> little of our outlook on the world and is pretty ignorant on the whole.
Why are you so keen on mass immigration of aliens - not least mozlems
- then?
> > The 'common market' vote may well have been a pretext to peace
> > in Europe, it's long term goal may well have been to make
> > Britain some Switzerland. However, if Britian is to wave the
> > white flag in the face of a European take over. Because that's
> > what it is. We are saying no more fights, we're waving the white flag.
>
> Tosh, and BTW Britain is a large island that forms the major part of the
> United Kingdom which includes this island, the offshore islands and
> Northern Ireland. Britain is not the UK
Oh dear. Britain is NOT a large island. Britain is England-and-
Wales. Great Britain is England, Wales, and Scotland - ie the island.
Do try to remember to call it GREAT Britain next time.
> > If that is the case, then that is the argument that should be put
> > to the people. We should have a referendum and our surrender to
> > Europe.
>
> Only you and your loony friends consider it surrender, normal people
> consider it political and social progress.
Well no, normal people are very wary of the EU and certainly don't
consider it political and social progress. Opinion polls show this.
> > Otherwise the politcial elite will be know for ever more as
> > those who sold Britain out, from under our noses, for our 'own good'.
> > And they will be forever more hated for it.
>
> Dream on.
You must live a very sheltered life.
> > Once you have politicians taking power out of the poeple's hands
> > where does it end. It was not the common people who wanted to
> > fight others, it was when they were told to do so by their 'leaders'.
>
> That's the way it has always been, the 'people' wield no direct power,
> they just vote for others to do so on their behalf.
>
> > If the three main parties have so stitched up the system in Britain
> > as to sell our souls to the Europeans then the people need some
> > political monopolies commision.
>
> They can vote for the BNP or UKIP of course, or some other loony party
> of
> that ilk. Oh silly me, they have just done so with the magnificent
> result of a whole ten or so council seats gained out of several thousand
> possibles. Obvious then that the people of the United Kingdom think they
> are the best thing since sliced bread.
Alternatively they don't vote for small parties because they don't
want to split the vote for a bigger party which is less objectionable
than the one already in. That's the problem with FPTP.
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