On May 5, 6:27 am, sizy_one <sim...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 5, 4:31 am, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 4, 10:16 pm, Maria <i...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On May 5, 12:16 am, "John of Aix" <j.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > Blue wrote:
> > > > > Viejo Vizcacha wrote:
> > > > >> On May 3, 9:31 pm, sizy_one <sim...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > >>> Only tyrants and oligarchs together with die hard fascists
left over
> > > > >>> from WW11 and out of date Marxists cream in their pants when
the eu
> > > > >>> is mentioned.
>
> > > > >> Not really. Anyone who is familiar with European history, knows
very
> > > > >> well that Europeans were at each other throats for thousands of
> > > > >> years, and after WWII a few of them got together to start the
EU,
> > > > >> with the basic objective of avoiding wars. Only war mongers and
> > > > >> suckers of Yankee cock would like to go back to the bad old
days.
>
> > > > > It goes something like, no one under 50 has had a vote on
Europe.
>
> > > > Nor on most things that form part of UK law and society. We don't
revote
> > > > things everytime a new generation is born you know.
>
> > > It's not a 'revote' if what you are voting on is substantially
> > > different from that which you voted on previously.
>
> > > > > When we did get a vote it was for some called the 'common
market'.
>
> > > > No it was called the European Economic Community.
>
> > > And did not involve political or monetary union.
>
> > > > > Since then, with out any more referendum it's snowballed from
> > > > > some market to some united states of Europe.
>
> > > > I hardly think 'snowballed' is the apposite word. It has been a
long and
> > > > difficult process for the EU to get where it is.
>
> > > > > A vote on this ever changing body is long overdue.
> > > > > Especially as this new treaty will allow polictians to totally
> > > > > ingor the British public. No more treaties will be needed.
> > > > > We will giving Europe permision to make new laws as it pleases.
>
> > > > In case you are not aware of it, which you seem not to be,
European laws
> > > > are suggested by the representatives of the member countries,
including
> > > > the UK of course, and voted on by democratically elected MEPs.
>
> > > > > This is the last fight. That's why after this treaty was
rejected
> > > > > so often it came back with a different name and the leaders just
> > > > > decided they wouldn't put it to the people of their respective
> > > > > nations.
>
> > > > The Lisbon treaty has never been rejected. The proposed
Constitution was
> > > > rejected. If you can't get your facts straight then sod off for
you
> > > > have nothing useful to say.
>
> > > > > You mention America as though forign inffluence is a bad thing.
>
> > > > And you mention the EU in exactly the same terms. Do make up your
mind.
>
> > > > > Well that being so, European nations that out number Britain
> > > > > in many places including voting rights
>
> > > > One nation only outnumbers the UK in voting rights and that is
Germany
> > > > for the simple reason that its population is about a fifth
greater.
>
> > > > > will go from 75% control
> > > > > of Britain to a 100%. How can you say US influence is worse
> > > > > than European total control is beyond me.
>
> > > > I'd rather any eventuial outside influence come from people who
share
> > > > the same culture, not from a land 5000 kilometres away that shares
very
> > > > little of our outlook on the world and is pretty ignorant on the
whole.
>
> > > Britain has more in common with the US than most of Europe.
>
> > > > > The 'common market' vote may well have been a pretext to peace
> > > > > in Europe, it's long term goal may well have been to make
> > > > > Britain some Switzerland. However, if Britian is to wave the
> > > > > white flag in the face of a European take over. Because that's
> > > > > what it is. We are saying no more fights, we're waving the white
flag.
>
> > > > Tosh, and BTW Britain is a large island that forms the major part
of the
> > > > United Kingdom which includes this island, the offshore islands
and
> > > > Northern Ireland. Britain is not the UK
>
> > > > > If that is the case, then that is the argument that should be
put
> > > > > to the people. We should have a referendum and our surrender to
> > > > > Europe.
>
> > > > Only you and your loony friends consider it surrender, normal
people
> > > > consider it political and social progress.
>
> > > How is it political or social progress to devolve power further and
> > > further away from the individual?
>
> > I guess you have not noticed, but the age of individualism is quickly
> > approaching its end. There are only few options left:
>
> > 1) Global government, which itself can be democratically elected, or
> > the government of oligarchs, or
>
> Oh yes! And how may I beg can we democratically elect a World
> Government when the system we have already doesn't lend itself to such
> a phenomena? Do you think the tooth fairy will suddenly appear and rid
> oligarchs of their vested interests?
>
>
>
> > 2) Multiple warlords that will have control of some space, and who
> > will be constantly fighting each other.
>
> That would be the result of allowing the world to drift into the hands
> of the self chosen few.
> Nothing new there then!
>
>
>
> > The age of each individual freely making personal choices regardless
> > how they will affect the rest of the planet is now in its last
> > breaths.
>
> The age of your last breath will live for ever.
> You are of course the result of the decades of media brainwa****ng
> you've received since your birth. Fortunately for all of us there are
> some who have managed to overcome this affliction and realise that
> true anarchy does not represent selfishness as those in power plot to
> make it appear, but natural brotherly and sisterly bonds that exist
> and transcend violence.
And then, there is the small matter of limited resources. When someone
does not have access to clean water, while his neighbour has a
humongous private swimming pool, it is very unlikely that the one who
lacks water will satisfy himself with the thought that his neighbour
brotherly loves him.
VV
> Selfishness flourishes in the minds of unchecked power centers. The
> more powerful the center the greater the danger.
>
>
>
> > VV- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
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