Re: Death of Zoya Krakhmalnikova, Russian Christian writer jailed

Marko Amnell wrote:

>Everything you write below about me and what I said
>is a misrepresentation. It's pointless to continue
>talking to you.
>
>Here are some of your misrepresentations (the list is
>not complete):
>
>1) I said I am a former journalist. This is correct.
>You claim I said I am now working as a jounalist.
>I did not say that. I was employed by AFP
>(and its finance unit AFX) during the 1990s.
>  
>
Thank you for finally clarifying when and under what cir***stances you 
used to be a journalist.  I had asked ou the about what where when and 
how of the Journalist you claimed to be for France Presse.  Since we 
have a number of French Readers on this newsgroup, I was sure they would 
find you an interesting  person .

>2) You claim I referred to an article I wrote for AFP
>in the 1990s. I did not; I referred to an article I
>wrote for the magazine Nordi***, a business
>magazine. Another instance of your failure to read.
>  
>
Actually, I just asked you a couple times to post your own article and 
to refer to anything contem****ary. If by the second or third time I 
forgot in what publication your one article resided, I am heartily sorry.

>3) You claim that I said that I covered Russia
>for some news organization. I never said that.
>
>4) I did not claim that I provided evidence for
>Anders Aslund's claim that 50 percent of the price
>of public contracts in Russia are kickbacks. I said
>"IF you want the evidence " for such and such a
>claim, then contact Anders Aslund.
>  
>

You made the claim.    I asked you to post some evidence for your 
statement. Then you suggested I research Aslund.  You refuted your own 
statement, and the statement that Aslund made such a statement, but 
getting around to quoting one of his many articles. You publically 
established the level of your reading ksills and knowledge of Russian 
area studies....

>You see how this goes? You misread everything
>I write. I don't have the time to correct all your
>mistakes in basic reading.
>
>Of course the 50 per cent claim is impressionistic!
>I wrote it as part of an impressionstic description
>of why Russia is not a Western country. And on
>Usenet! The im****tant point is that there is a large
>amount of corruption in Russia. If you bothered
>to read any of the links I provided, you would
>have noticed this little tidbit:
>  
>

You're assuming that you know even a tenth of what a considerable number 
of people on this very newsgroup, alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox, 
know about Russia, including about its economy.  And then you talk about 
how you think you are in a position to educate people... :) Have you 
ever been to Russia?  Do you have any link to Russian culture?  Do you 
read the language?  Speak it?  We've got a number of people on this 
forum who read Russian, who have owrked in Russia, even a few Russians, 
who are siiting at their keyboards with bated breath, just waiting for 
you to educate them......lol

>"According to Transparency International, the only
>country with higher income per capita and more
>corruption than Russia is Equatorial Guinea. That is
>hardly a standard worthy of a great nation."
>
>http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/1016/42/362262.htm
>
>Still no evidence? Well, why don't you contact
>Transparency International and ask them how
>they arrived at that conclusion.
>  
>
And you are assuming that people here aren't familiar with Transparency 
International... 

>
>
>
>
>On May 19, 1:35 am, ++ <fri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>  
>
>>Marko Amnell wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>On May 18, 2:23 pm, ++ <fri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I've met and spoken to Mr. Aslund on a few occasions when he was
>>>>involved with the Carnegie Foundation.  His statement above that you
are
>>>>relying on for the level of corruption is parenthetical and rhetorical
>>>>at best and hardly to be relied upon as evidence. He is one of many
>>>>people studying the Russian economy around here.  I think I attended a
>>>>discussion of his on the Ukranian "Orange" revolution in 2006.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>You are misinterpreting his statement into a generalization.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Nah. Aslund states very clearly that corruption is a major
>>>problem in Russia. Whether it is 50 per cent or 20 per cent,
>>>those are still extremely high percentages. And quite frankly,
>>>your total unwillingness to accept this basic fact about the
>>>Russia economy makes me unwilling to waste any more of
>>>my time trying to educate you about the economic problems
>>>of your own country.
>>>      
>>>
>>Hmm, let's go back to what I said.  I suggested that the conclusions you
>>were drawing were dispro****tionate to reality.  I really doubt that you
>>are a journalist, that you know anything much about Russia, or, in fact,
>>that you are very knowledgeable about economics.  Thus, I'm not very
>>worried about having to give up your illusion of educating me.
>>
>>You attempted to credential yourself as a France Presse journalist.  
>>What hubris.  You don't have to pretend to be in a position to educate
>>me to answer the simple questions I asked before concerning your stated
>>qualifications to educate us all.  I'll repeat them.  Please provide
>>your areas of expertise and where and when and what you covered for
>>France Presse as a self stated international journalist.  And do please
>>post your own article you wrote yourself in the 90s that you published
>>in the same.  The only thing Google seems to know about you is that you
>>wrote a review of a book on number theory.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>But just by Googling I found numerous
>>>other articles dealing with Russia's corruption problems.
>>>Here's one quote, and this will be my last post on this subject:
>>>      
>>>
>>>"...opinion polls show that Russians are as upset as any
>>>other people about corruption and that they have more of it.
>>>Second, the mismanagement of the large state cor****ations
>>>and alleged kickbacks of 20 percent to 50 percent on major
>>>infrastructure projects have gotten out of control. In other
>>>corrupt countries, people are upset at mere 2 percent kickbacks.
>>>Russia's corruption is some of the largest in terms of the
>>>absolute amount individuals receive and the relative share
>>>of the kickbacks."
>>>      
>>>
>>>(There Is Nothing Normal About Corruption, 23 April 2008
>>>By Anders Aslund)
>>>      
>>>
>>This is a quote by the person you quoted the last time, Aslund, who you
>>represented as representing the greater end of that range as the norm.  
>>Why don't you simply apologize for misrepresenting the fellow
originally?  
>>
>>    
>>
>>>http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/1016/42/362262.htm
>>>      
>>>
>>>Did you catch what he said? That people in other countries
>>>are upset at corruption that reaches a mere 2 percent
>>>in kickbacks. In Russia the kickbacks are TEN TO TWENTY
>>>times larger than that. Deny it all you like. It's not my
>>>problem. But I am starting to wonder whether you are a
>>>personal beneficiary of these kickbacks.
>>>      
>>>
>>I didn't affirm or deny any particular figures.  You are the netbaby who
>>generalized and misrepresented figures.  10% is not 20% and 20% is not
>>50%% and instances are not norms. Evidence is not someone's article,
>>unless it is empirical data included in that article and that empirical
>>data is itself referenced.  Even then, it can be problemmatic and
>>challenged.  I wonder what Prof. Aslund would think of this subthread
>>and your peculiar representation of his work?
>>
>>
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