Re: On the Settler Question

On Apr 28, 3:48 pm, Vngelis <meberr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

 revolutionary movement, at least not as generally expressed by
Vngels'
> > disive and non-Marxist view. Also, this perspective would leave the
> > tiny "Group Vngelis" as a group of 1 or 2 in entire world.
>
> If size were an issue in discussing politics then marxism would have
> had no chance in its history as I dont recall it ever being a mass
> movement apart from a few brief periods in history and for a short
> time as well. Although this obsession you have with size is unhealthy
> living in LA as well...

In this case though, you are totally at odds with all things Marxist.
I agree that size doesn't matter in terms of being right or
wrong...but Marxism achieving a mass influence is something based on
"size"...size of the section of the working class seeing Marxists as
leaders. You "program" has never been adopted by *any* section of the
working class subscribing to Marxism and that is what I meant "forever
1 or 2" people.


> Jews (your favorite topic and you didn't even know!) as well as Greeks
> were chucked out by
Nasserhttp://www.country-studies.com/egypt/nasser-and-arab-socialism.html.
 I met people who were booted out years ago...

Here is what the article YOU cite states:

" The position of some minority groups changed during this period.
Most Jews left Egypt, the last large group being several thousand who
did not have Egyptian citizen****p and who were expelled during the
Suez crisis. The Greek community also decreased considerably because
many Greeks who did not like socialism returned to Greece."

The word "forced" "expulsion" "driven out" not used or even implied.
People without pass****ts are always open to victimization by the
ruling...bourgeoisie. At any rate, Greeks were in Egypt WAY before the
Arabs were. Who were the settlers again? Morocan Jews were expelled
WITH the conivance of the Morcocan gov't on two occasions...first to
go were Moroccan Jewish communists and unionists. Jews were part of
the Berber comunity for 1500 years, arriving as Arab Jews with the
Muslim Jews. These are settlers? BTW...they were ALL Moroccan citizens
but the Monarchist/Zionist collaboration achieved what they wanted.
Same with Yemenite Jews. ALL were indigenous. Of course V can't be
seen defending Jews, anywhere, even against Nazis or Arab
monarchists...


> Weren't the Vietnamese boat people essentially collaborators of US
> imperialism?

Yes, the Vietnamese tried to KEEP them there for re-education. They
were not "settlers". Car to try again?

> Wont Iraquis be expelled when the Yanks lose totally?

??? Wouldn't it be the Iraqis who would be victorius against the
Yankees?

> White French citizens who lived in Algeria were expelled weren't they?

Covered that. Those that refused Algerian citizen****p and refused to
pledge to build the Algerian nation. But in this case, obviously, as I
stated previously, they *never* considered themselves Algerian. In
fact they mostly considered Algeria to be part of France and this is
who Algeria was colonized explicilty by French imperialism.


> White farmers in S Africa are attacked daily. More than a million
> white youth have left.

Not a political strategy. Part of the decay of S. African capitalism,
still controlled by whites. No "expulsions", period.

> The law which states indiginous have to be given jobs is leading to
> white flight.

In S. Africa? Hmmm...didn't know that (and in fact doubt it but I
suppose it could be true). Still, no expulsions.

> What has happened in Zimbabwe that you ignore will happen in S Africa,
> is happening in S. Africa hence the interest of the West in Zimbabwe.

Hyper inflation and collapse of agruculture? Whites were never
expelled from Zimbabwe. Land reform (or even the bizarre form it takes
in Zim.) equals expropriation of settlers. What's the point? Who is
against this?

> History though will go through its black phase for the South African
> continent.

????

> The slogan 'One Settler One Bullet' is being implemented on the ground
> irrespective what the politicians are doing or what they dream will
> happen in the so-called 'Rainbow Nation'.

No, it's not. There crime...robbery's etc. Uncoordinated and a product
of the massive impovershment caused by S. African's structural
adjustment programs and the legacy of Apartheid. Again, victims tend
to be Black, not white. Newsmedia hypes the whites being attacked but
Blacks are overwhelmingly the ones victimized by lumpen proletariat.
If you want to discuss politics in S. Africa, by all means...

> Whatever you say is that the Indians were expelled from Uganda. You
> cant square the circle explaining to us why they were expelled if they
> were not settlers but indentured slaves.

I gave you a defintion of "settler". Some one who
*voluntarily*...settles another's land. You offer no definition.

> Their role was to run the
> country on behalf of the British who departed. They did. Idi Amin
> wasn't naturally anti-Indian after all his CV was fighting the Mau Mau
> in Kenyas war of independece on behalf of the British much in the same
> way as Saddam fought Iran on behalf of the Yanks. He was forced to
> expel them because of the pressure from below.

Pressure from below? There was little "pressure" as Amin permitted
none. He was a tyrant, plane and simpe, which is why when he was
overthrown, there was dancing in the streets. When Indians were
invited BACK, there was no opposition.

> Guyana like Argentina if populated by all races other than indigenous
> are special cases. The settler issue does not apply internally but
> from the outside in, much in the same was as in the USA as the true
> Americans have been wiped out and are left on some casino
> reservations...

My point is that all nations are "settled" in one way or another.
There are STILL native Americans with claims to land. In Canada where
the first peoples were not wiped out to the degree they were in the
US, they are a bigger minority and their claims are...naturally bigger
to what they consider the "settlers" in Ontario and the plains.

In Bolivia no one considers the whites to be 'settlers' but Oligarchs
and racist exploiters, to be expropriated. Your view is would have
sections of the working class fighting each other. You play into the
hands of imperialism by diverting the class from a serious defense of
their interests, you seek to divide nations based on something as
flaky as "origin".

David