Talk About Network

Google


Register and Login
Nick
Password
Register create new account Sign up is FREE and you can post replies, new topics, bookmark posts and more!
Recover lost password


Government > Trotsky Socialism > Re: BROWN ANSWE...
Latest [ Topics | Posts ] Archive Post A New Topic Post a Reply
<< Topic < Post Post 9 of 23 Topic 3428 of 4390
Post > Topic >>

Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL

by stephen <srdiamond@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 1, 2008 at 01:07 PM

On Apr 30, 6:49=A0pm, "Stephen R. Diamond" <srdiam...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> The Sparts oppose running for any capitalist executive office =A0
> (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/esp/index.html)
>
>
>
> > Down With Executive Offices of the Capitalist State!
> >Comrade Bride began his re****t by noting the im****tance of our
discussion=

> > on communists running for executive office: =93The fundamental point
tha=
t=92s
> > posed here is the line between reform and revolution, between the =A0
> > reformiststrategy of taking hold of and administering the bourgeois
=A0
> > state apparatusversus the revolutionary strategy, which means sma****ng
=
=A0
> > the existing stateorgans and replacing them with organs of workers
rule.=
 =A0
> > Communists do notjoin, sup****t or take responsibility for the =A0
> > administration of thebourgeois state. And when you run for, as well as
=
=A0
> > hold, executive office,you are legitimizing exactly that=97the
executive=
 =A0
> > authority.=94
> >The position that communists should under no cir***stances run for
> > executive offices of the bourgeois state is an extension of our
> > longstanding criticism of the entry of the German Communist Party
(KPD),=

> > with the sup****t of the Comintern, into the regional governments of
=A0
> > Saxonyand Thuringia in October 1923. The KPD=92s sup****t to these
bourge=
ois
> > governments run by =93left=94 Social Democrats=97first from outside
the
> > government and then from within=97helped to derail a revolutionary =A0
> > situation(see =93A Trotskyist Critique of Germany 1923 and the
Comintern=
,=94 =A0
> > SpartacistNo. 56, Spring 2001). Our new line clears up a confusion in
=
=A0
> > the communistmovement that has been present since the CI Second
Congress=
 =A0
> > in 1920. There****ter noted: =93We are trying to do what in the main
the =
=A0
> > ThirdInternational did do, which is clean up the act of the Second =A0
> > International
> > on the state; they just didn=92t finish the job. Because when they had
t=
hat
> > discussion at the Second Congress, they were doing battle with the
> > Bordigists and ultralefts, who in principle didn=92t want to run for
=A0=

> > office.But no distinction there was made between running for
parliament =
=A0
> > andrunning for executive office.=94
> >Our earlier line, affirmed at the 2003 ICL Fourth Conference, was that
> > Marxists could run for executive posts so long as we made clear in =A0
> > advancethat we would not assume office if elected. Comrade Bride noted
=
=A0
> > that thisissue had first been raised internally in 1999, when the
party =
=A0
> > was deeplydisoriented, then was raised again after the 2003
conference, =
=A0
> > leading tothe reopening of discussion. He commented, =93I think our
=A0
> > slowness to grapple
> > with this has a lot to do with the state of the party and the
prevailing=

> > conception, in fact, that the overriding problems were sectarianism
and =
=A0
> > not
> > Menshevism.=94 The subsequent fights and discussions to reorient the
ICL=
 =A0
> > havegreatly strengthened our ability to address such questions,
drawing =
=A0
> > cruciallessons from the history of the workers movement to apply to
our =
=A0
> > work.
> >The executive office question was a major subject of debate in the =A0
> > buildupto our Fifth Conference, with many contributions by comrades at
> > pre-conference meetings and in internal bulletins. A number of
research
> > do***ents were produced, examining a variety of historical situations,
> > among them the ministerialism (holding positions in bourgeois =A0
> > governments)of the Second International; the electoral work of the =A0
> > Bolshevik Party andits attitude toward bourgeois municipal =A0
> > administrations during the periodof dual power in 1917; the work of
the =
=A0
> > Bulgarian Narrow Socialists in theyears before and after the Russian
=A0=

> > Revolution; and of early Communistparties in France, Mexico and =A0
> > elsewhere. Further historical researchremains to be done, with an eye
to=
 =A0
> > publi****ng more extensive propaganda onthis critical question in the
=A0=

> > future.
> >Our change of line remained controversial up to the eve of the =A0
> > conference.Some comrades initially argued for running for president in
=
=A0
> > =93exceptional=94cir***stances as a means of gaining a broader hearing
f=
or =A0
> > Marxist ideas.Another comrade, pointing to the practice of early =A0
> > Communist parties inrunning local administrations, even wrote that if
we=
 =A0
> > won a majority in amunicipal council, we should take office or risk
=A0
> > being seen as=93abstentionist.=94 A comrade responded sharply: =93Our
po=
sition =A0
> > is notabstention, as suggested by some, it=92s opposition. Please be
ver=
y =A0
> > clear,we=92re not neutral, we=92re opposed to the executive of the =A0
> > capitalist state.=94The comrades who initially argued against changing
o=
ur =A0
> > line eventually sawthat their argumentation skirted dangerously close
to=
 =A0
> > reformism, and in the
> > end the conference voted unanimously for the new position.
> >A recent polemic by the Internationalist Group (IG) provides a crude
=A0
> > rehashof the worst arguments in favor of running for executive office.
=
=A0
> > The IG=92sarticle, =93France Turns Hard to the Right=94
(Internationalis=
t =A0
> > supplement, May2007), deals with the recent French presidential =A0
> > elections, where theUSec=92s flag****p group both ran a candidate and,
=
=A0
> > after he was eliminated inthe first round of voting, called to elect
the=
 =A0
> > candidate of thepro-capitalist Socialist Party. In the name of
=93fighti=
ng =A0
> > the right,=94 in2002 the Mandelites even called to re-elect France=92s
=
=A0
> > right-wing bourgeoispresident, Jacques Chirac, against his opponent,
the=
 =A0
> > fascist Jean-Marie LePen. Citing our new position as summarized in an
=
=A0
> > article on the Frenchelections (Le Bolch=E9vik No. 179, March 2007;
=A0
> > translated in Workers VanguardNo. 890, 13 April 2007), the IG =A0
> > ludicrously charges that our policy ofrefusing to run for president or
=
=A0
> > other executive office =93reveals aparliamentary cretinism similar to
th=
at =A0
> > of the Mandelitepseudo-Trotskyists=94=97because we recognize a
differenc=
e =A0
> > between parliamentaryand executive positions!
> >The IG shows touching faith in the capitalist state and its democratic
> > trappings. Marxists have always distinguished between executive
offices
> > like president or mayor, which by definition entail administering the
> > bourgeois state, and legislative positions like parliamentary deputy,
=
=A0
> > which
> > communists can use as a tribune to help rally the m***** against the
> > bourgeois order. Not so the IG, which obliterates that distinction in
=
=A0
> > favorof one between =93democratic=94 and =93anti-democratic=94
bourgeois=
 =A0
> > institutions.They write: =93We are also opposed to the existence of a
=
=A0
> > second, supposedlyhigher, legislative chamber as inherently =A0
> > anti-democratic. Should wetherefore also refuse to run candidates of
the=
 =A0
> > Senate?=94 To baseparticipation in elections on how democratic the =A0
> > institutional facades ofthe capitalist state are is truly
parliamentary =
=A0
> > cretinism. Does the IGthink the lower chambers of bourgeois =A0
> > parliamentary republics are trulydemocratic institutions? If they
think =
=A0
> > the French Senate is undemocratic,they should look at the Russian =A0
> > tsarist Duma, which the Bolshevikseffectively utilized to propagate
=A0
> > their revolutionary program. As far asthe IG is concerned, communists
=
=A0
> > can run =93for whatever post.=94 Judge?Sheriff? Indeed, if it=92s OK
to =
run =A0
> > for commander-in-chief of theimperialist military, why not for local
=A0=

> > sheriff?
> >As our conference do***ent states: =93The problem with running for =A0
> > executiveoffices is that it lends legitimacy to prevailing and
reformist=
 =A0
> > conceptionsof the state.=94 When you run for such offices, workers
will =
=A0
> > understand thatyou cannot be but aspiring to administer the capitalist
=
=A0
> > state. For the IG,running candidates for president or mayor =93in no
way=
 =A0
> > implies that theyintend to occupy these positions within the framework
=
=A0
> > of the bourgeoisstate.=94 After all, =93In the unusual case in which a
=
=A0
> > revolutionary candidatehad enough influence to be elected, the party
=A0=

> > would already have begunbuilding workers councils and other organs of
a =
=A0
> > soviet character. And theparty would insist that, if elected, its =A0
> > candidates would base themselveson such organs of workers power and
not =
=A0
> > on the institutions of thebourgeois state.=94 With this line, the IG
=A0=

> > leaves open, and certainly doesnot disavow, the possibility of not
only =
=A0
> > running for executive office butof taking such office in a
revolutionary=
 =A0
> > situation, as in the Saxon andThuringian bourgeois governments in
1923. =
=A0
> > And what if a =93revolutionarycandidate=94 wins a municipal post like
ma=
yor =A0
> > in a local party stronghold inthe absence of a nationwide social
crisis =
=A0
> > that poses the question ofproletarian power? This was the
not-so-unusual=
 =A0
> > case with the earlyBulgarian and French Communist parties, among
others,=
 =A0
> > which controlledhundreds of such local administrations. The IG is mum
on=
 =A0
> > what its winningcandidate should do in such cir***stances.
> >The IG upholds the tradition not of Lenin but of Karl Kautsky. Amid the
> > revolutionary upheaval that swept Germany at the end of World War I,
the=

> > Kautskyites claimed to sup****t both the workers councils and the =A0
> > bourgeoisprovisional government, the Council of People=92s =A0
> > Representatives, which theyjoined in November 1918. They thus played a
=
=A0
> > key role in co-opting anddefeating the revolutionary upsurge. It is
=A0
> > precisely in revolutionary timesthat illusions in the capitalist state
=
=A0
> > are most dangerous. After Lenin laidout the Marxist perspective of the
=
=A0
> > revolutionary overthrow of the bourgeoisstate in The State and =A0
> > Revolution (1917), he was furiously attacked bySocial Democrats who
=A0
> > accused him of going over to anarchism.
> >The IG=97whose core cadre defected from our Trotskyist organization in
19=
96
> > in pursuit of their op****tunist orientation toward various Stalinists,
> > Latin American nationalists and other petty-bourgeois milieus=97sees
our=
 =A0
> > newposition as further evidence of our break with =93the continuity of
=
=A0
> > genuineTrotskyism.=94 What they mean here, without saying
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Having just review some of Trotsky's writings on the labor-party
demand in the U.S., I have to conclude that if this point about
executive office in the capitalist state must, if correct, have been
missed even by Trotsky. Trotsky raised the possibility that a nascent
labor party might nominate John L. Lewis to run against Roosevelt for
the U.S. Presidency.

srd
 




 23 Posts in Topic:
BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
rab <rogeralanblackwel  2008-04-30 02:31:26 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
Vngelis <meberry68@[EM  2008-04-30 14:31:48 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
"Stephen R. Diamond&  2008-05-01 01:49:45 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
nada <dwaltersMIA@[EMA  2008-04-30 19:33:07 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
stephen <srdiamond@[EM  2008-04-30 19:51:08 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
stephen <srdiamond@[EM  2008-04-30 19:52:27 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-04-30 21:37:43 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
rab <rogeralanblackwel  2008-05-01 09:27:36 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
stephen <srdiamond@[EM  2008-05-01 13:07:59 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
Vngelis <meberry68@[EM  2008-05-01 13:44:59 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
nada <dwaltersMIA@[EMA  2008-05-01 14:18:28 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
Vngelis <meberry68@[EM  2008-05-01 15:14:47 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
nada <dwaltersMIA@[EMA  2008-05-01 16:50:55 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-05-01 17:32:17 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
nada <dwaltersMIA@[EMA  2008-05-01 18:28:03 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
stephen <srdiamond@[EM  2008-05-02 00:19:37 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
rab <rogeralanblackwel  2008-05-02 04:19:22 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
"Stephen R. Diamond&  2008-05-02 17:16:21 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-05-02 16:12:21 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
Vngelis <meberry68@[EM  2008-05-03 07:41:08 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-05-03 08:10:50 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-05-07 20:24:13 
Re: BROWN ANSWERS NATO CALL
dusty <trackdusty@[EMA  2008-05-09 06:27:32 

Post A Reply:
  Go here to Signup

AddThis Feed Button


About - Advertising - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Signup

Contact
tan12V112 Wed Dec 3 14:22:35 CST 2008.