On May 8, 9:01=A0am, nada <dwalters...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> The description in the Guardian is interesting, a little overdrawn on
> the race question, IMO. Racism, like racism in the US, is tied to
> class. Without meaning to, this is the lesson the Guardian draws. And
> it's true. Little has to do with 'expelling' anyone, this is beyond
> the pale of Marxism, something you travelled a long time ago. It is
> wholly your own creation..."What I'd do" (which I applaud for your
> honesty in stating this, once and for all)..."You'd do", but Marxists
> would do, and have, done something else, and that's organize the
> working class against the mostly white, rich, oligarchies of Latin
> America.
Yes, but the truth is that history shows that many of the lower orders
of white or mixed (metizo) origin politically cohere to the wealthier
predominantly white oligarchs. The more white and privileged eastern
provinces of Bolivia don=92t want any change, that interferes with those
historically determined privileges, let alone a =93Permanent
Revolution=94. And so there is a vote for secession in Santa Cruz
province =96 and the other three will likely follow, notwithstanding a
very large boycott. In countries like Bolivia there is a significant
resistance to progressive change based on the remnants of colonial
conquest (the Christian mestizo element).
So, because of the relative and glaring im****tance of the national
question in Latin America, particularly in Bolivia, the question will
then be posed, in spite of Morales present declarations, as to who
will prevail. If the military moves in under orders from the central
government and strong political measures are taken against the
separatists, seizure of the property of rebels, in the best
revolutionary traditions, then you will have a chicken run and
expulsions, violent displacement of peoples reflecting the fact that
they are out of phase with this phase of historical progress (the
national question) in that country.
The same as in South Africa and Rhodesia. And they expel themselves
when the time comes. We can witness the large numbers of thickly
accented South African and Rhodesians in Australia and by-the-way an
increasing number of Israelis taking up select real estate in parts of
Australia =96 the beginnings of a larger chicken run perhaps? And not to
forget the =93boat people=94 either compradors or ethnic Chinese who had
no identity with the national Vietnamese revolution and might have
been a thorn in the side of the revolution had the Chinese not been
thoroughly thrashed when they invaded Vietnam. And the day will likely
come when the same phenomenon happens to corresponding social cl*****
in Latin America =96 the main point of the excellent Guardian article.
Granted that this cannot be determined in advance of events, but
history makes it seem likely.
> Venezuela is interesting because, like Argentina, only a small single
> digit percentage is "Indigenous", the 'racial composition' which so
> infatuates both yourself and the Oligarchy, is relevant ONLY because
> the working class and peasantry, proud of their AFRICAN and indiginous
> roots BUT who are also totally mixed with the original white settlers
> from Spain, represent a non-indineous but sythesis of white, Indian
> and Black blood
Very little African ethnicity at all in Argentina. You seem to want it
=96 but it is minute. There is a significant mestizo population mainly
in the north, though a large pro****tion of the population of the
villes miseria around the cities from Buenos Ares south.
=2E..essentially what all Andean peoples are.
That isn=92t so. Depends what you mean by "Andean people". The majority
of Andean people in the higher areas have very little or no mixed
blood =96 no Spanish and certainly no African.
So...who is
> the settler? Chavez poises it correctly: those that are with the
> Revolution, *regardless of their racial background* who fight for
> Venezuela against Imperialism are "Bolivarian", the oligarchy, mostly
> white, but not all, are the *class* enemy. I agree 100% with this.
> Chavez is particularly proud of his Black/African mixture and I don'
> blame him since it's a slap in the face for the Euro-oriented rich
> ****s who've robbed Venezuela for the last 200 years. The issue then
> is REMOVING the power of the oligarchy, not "expelling them". But of
> course you are a one-man band on this.
> David
=93The issue=94 is not just set by Chavez (as wise as it may be for
political purposes), but the whole logic of the process of the
democratic revolution.
Vngelis has made clear the real history of the creation of modern
Greece and Turkey =96 mass expulsions =96 and resettlement - continuing to
the present time. The Greeks proved to be a thorn in the side of the
formation and consolidation of the Kemalist post Ottoman national
venture and Turks in the territory of the new Greece the same.
There was no scope for a class solution to this question. The foremost
question in those predominantly agrarian societies was the national
question. No amount of idealist meandering about =93beyond the pale of
Marxism=94 can change that. It appears that (with exceptions, in
exceptional cir***stances) this aspect of the national question
requires such population movements =96 a stage separated by some time
from most certain later developments.
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