Re: Socialism and Capitalism

Michael Price wrote:

> On Jul 19, 7:00 am, Fred <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>>         Capitalism doesn't demand that people be that way, but it does
>>         reward the
>> practise with wealth and power.
> 
>   No more, and indeed considerably less than any other system I know.

        I divide economic systems into three main categories, (there may
be more): 
Scarce money systems, plentiful money systems, and no money systems.  Only
the scarce money systems reward misbehaviour, (selfishness, legalised
cheating, etc.).  The other two are neutral to them I believe.

> To the extent that a system is capitalistic it is impossible to use
> wealth
> and power to take things away from people poorer and less powerful
> than
> you.  The mixed economy seems to specialise in that.

        Capitalism is *all about* taking money away from others.  That's
how the
game is played.  The more money you get the more power you have.

> 
>>  True, you don't have to take it, but some
>> of the people out there are psychopaths and they will take it.
> 
>   And they won't  be psychopaths under other systems?

        It is unknown whether psychopaths are a product of the economic
system. 
For instance it could be that under a universal plentiful money system,
like an expanded LETSystem, that psychopaths don't develop.  The economy
is
stable and it does not create class divisions.  The security that is
inherant in such a system may breed better mental health.  We don't know. 
It's never been tried, and it would take at least a generation to find
out.
My point is that there are so many horrors that fall out of scarce money
systems, (including both capitalism & communism), that it really is worth
a
try.

> 
>>  Those who don't take it, loose under capitalism.  It's the system that
>> gave rise to the saying, "Nice guys finish last."
>>
>   You're simply claiming things without evidence.  In fact "nice guys
> finish
> last" suits interventionism far better because under it people have
> things
> taken away by the not-nice guys.
> 
        There is ample evidence.  Just look around you... Watch the
evening news.

>> > Profit is a necessity, not a noble goal. Capitalism often generates
>> > much more wealth than socialist systems which means there are more
>> > resources to help the needy.
>>
>>         But the needy never get them.
> 
>   Right, that's why the US has the greatest amount of money given to
> charity
> in the world?  That's why capitalist societies have the least poverty?
> 
        Not true.  People arestarving in the streets in the U.S.  Not in
Cuba. 
Factor in what Americans pay for health care, and education, and Cubans
aren't that poor.  Add that Cuba now grows organic food all over the
country and their diet is much better than that of Americans.  They have
less stress and less need to compete.  I don't know if they have fewer
psychopaths, and that would be a difficult measurement to take.  There is
less poverty in Cuba, and there are no extremely wealthy either.

>>  There are millions of homeless children
>> going to bed in the streets every night.   Many of them in the U.S.
> 
>   Bull****.  There are not millions of homeless children in the US.

        Not what I said, is it?!  There may be hundreds of thousands in
the U.S. 
Nobody knows, because there are no truthful sources for such information
in
the U.S.

> If there
> were it would be the fault of child labor laws not capitalism.
> 
        Capitalism breeds class divisions and ignores the poor.  This
creates
homeless families  and their children going hungry.  Charity never keeps
up
because Capitalism punishes every charitable act.

>>  Not one,...NOT ONE, of those children lives in Cuba... for instance.

>   Has anyone ever swum to Cuba to avoid poverty?

        Not many know about what conditions are like in Cuba, because the
U.S.
propaganda machine is so huge.  They have not been made rich by the
revolution, but they have been empowered by it.  This is far more
meaningful to a healthy life than mad consumerism.  It's still a scarce
money economy, but they are at least making the effort to correct the
worst
of the problems.

-- 
Peace,
Fred
(Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).