Re: Re: Socialism and Capitalism

Topaz wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:00:05 -0400, Fred <fred@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>        I divide economic systems into three main categories, (there may
>>        be more):
>>Scarce money systems, plentiful money systems, and no money systems. 
Only
>>the scarce money systems reward misbehaviour, (selfishness, legalised
>>cheating, etc.).  The other two are neutral to them I believe.
> 
> No, "no money system" does nothing to stop selfishness. That is the
> problem. Unless you mean pure Communism, but that is just utter
> nonsense.
> 
        Communism is a step up from capitalism, but it's not perfect.  Not
a bad
first step if it's done properly, however.  It still uses scarce money and
is subject to the same "capital" pressure due to the nature of the money
system, but communists at least recognise the problems with capitalism and
are doing something to try to fix it.

>>
>>        Capitalism is *all about* taking money away from others.  That's
>>        how the
>>game is played.  The more money you get the more power you have.
> 
>   Wrong again. Capitalism does create wealth. The problem with it is
> that it does nothing to stop greed and selfishness.
> 
        People create wealth.  Capitalists take wealth away from the
people and
money is their weapon of choice.

>>
>>        It is unknown whether psychopaths are a product of the economic
>>        system.
> 
> No, it is known. An economic system that does not permit psycopaths is
> needed.
> 
        It's got nothing to do with "permission."  You can't stop mental
illness
with legislation, but rather by removing the causes.  Excessive stress,
for
instance, could be a cause.

> 
>>For instance it could be that under a universal plentiful money system,
>>like an expanded LETSystem, that psychopaths don't develop.  The economy
>>is stable and it does not create class divisions.
> 
>  There needs to be the inventer class, the brains class, and the hands
> class. There is no universal wealth without them. Some people have to
> do the work and some people have to manage the business. Class hatred
> is part of the Communist rubbish.
> 
        "Some people have to do the work and some people have to manage
the
business."  --That's exactly the problem.  An egalitarian workers
cooperative would be one solution.  There does not have to be leaders and
followers.  Much better is an egalitarian society.

>   But something needs to balance out the money better. Capitalism
> doesn't cut it. And something needs to give the cl***** equal respect
> and encourage friend****p between them.
> 
        Respect has to be earned.  You simply cannot have selfish minded
people
saying, "We have to be in charge so respect us."  They will be resented
and
hated, and with some justification.  Only when people share equally the
wealth and the responsibility with mutual sup****t,... then respect flows
naturally.

>> The security that is
>>inherant in such a system may breed better mental health.  We don't
know.
>>It's never been tried,
> 
>  It's never been tried because it is utter nonsense. If everyone owned
> everything equally, very few would work and wealth would not be
> produced.
> 
        People generally like to work and be productive.  It's actually
very hard
to do nothing.  From the time we're very young we picture ourselves making
a contribution.  Little boys want to be firemen to save people and so on. 
It's human nature to want to help others.  We have to get back in touch
with those feelings, because the fast paced, scarce money system has
pushed
it out of us.  It tries to turn us all into psychopaths, because that's
the
nature of capitalism.


-- 
Peace,
Fred
(Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).