Re: Socialism and Capitalism

On Jul 23, 10:42=A0pm, Fred <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Topaz wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:17:18 -0400, Fred <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
>
> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The new system is not based on money as a scarce
commod=
ity. =A0You
> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0buy things
> >>by issuing money, but most people arecapable of understanding that
they
> >>still need "things" and somebody has to make them. =A0It would be
> >>the "things" (goods and services), that people would have to relate to
> >>instead of the money. =A0People can do this. =A0We have brains.
>
> > =A0 Without money there would just be a war over the "things". The
love
> > of money may be the root of all evil. But we do need money. You
> > suggest that there is some other way of exchanging goods and services
> > but you don't clearly show that it exists. There is barter but it is
> > far too slow and inefficient.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Barter is inefficient and it's not suggested here.
=A0Wha=
t I propose is
> essentially allowing a new human right, the right to issue money!
>
  That right is hardly "new", but it's been violated continuously for
some
time now.  By all means let's let a thousand monetary flowers bloom.
Of course while you have their right to issue something you say is
money, remember it's not money until someone takes it as payment!

> > =A0By the way, the question of where money comes from is at the root
of
> > problems:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *One* of the features that is different in the systems.
=
=A0I think there are
> other "problems" that are far greater and cause far more misery.
>
  The problem is not where money comes from but who controls where
it comes from.  Without government control of money people would use
the money that suits their purposes.
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The money system we have today is called the
debt-m=
oney
> > system. It is corrupt and needs to be replaced. The only way money
> > comes into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
> > existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
> > back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
> > bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in circulation
> > and this would be a great depression. What makes matters even worse is
> > that when money is created only the principle of the loan is created.
> > The money needed to pay the interest is never created. For this reason
> > it is impossible to pay back the principle plus the interest on all of
> > the loans that make up our money supply. The extra amount of money
> > needed to pay the interest was never created and does not exist.
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0The United States government borrows money from the Federal
> > Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
> > stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not the
> > government section. Other banks also create the money in our money
> > supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
> > actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
> > create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
> > debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of
Engravin=
g and
> > Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print come
> > from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and owned by
> > the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal, in spite of
> > the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock of the
> > Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the newly
> > created money to the government in exchange for government bonds. To
> > simplify: The United States does not make its own money. Bankers
> > create the money and loan it to the United States with an interest
> > charge.
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The book War Cycles Peace Cycles puts it =A0this way:
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to
=
someone
> > under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
> > has agreed to the impossible."
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 The book =A0The Struggle for World Power put it this way:
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 "The Bank of England... was the first payment institution
w=
hich
> > was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
> > therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State not
> > only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also agreed to
> > borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not only the
> > thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate fraud and
> > deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create money out of
> > nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all goods and services
> > for no return, which is fraud and theft, made worse by the
> > cir***stances that the money is lent out at interest...it follows that
> > those who have the power to 'create' out of nothing all the money in
> > each country and the whole world and lend it as stated, have total
> > power over all states, parties, firms, radio, press, individuals and
> > so on. Therefore the power of Parliament in general, and especially
> > with regard to money, is non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is
> > in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money"
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 These are all racist websites to some degree or another,
=
and the nsm88 is a
> nazi website. =A0It does not bode well for your image. =A0Not with me
any=
way.
>
  Topaz is an ardent Nazi who continually reposts the same rubbish
even
after I refute it.  He is a little troll.

> --
> Peace,
> Fred
> (Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).