Re: Socialism and Capitalism

PeterBP wrote:

> Fred <fred@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>> For instance it could be that under a universal plentiful money system,
>> like an expanded LETSystem, that psychopaths don't develop.  The
economy
>> is stable and it does not create class divisions. The security that is
>> inherant in such a system may breed better mental health.  We don't
know.
>> It's never been tried,
> 
> Now assumign that such a system woukd create such advantages, isn't it
> concieveable that through thousands of years of human cultural
> evolution, that a variant of such would have developed?
> 
        It is difficult to think of a different monetary system.  No doubt
there
are many that I've missed myself.  Lately politics is such that most
people
think there are only two; capitalism & communism.  During the cold war it
suited both sides to limit the options for their people, saying, "You're
either with us or against us."  Many people bought into that philosophy.
        It's hard to think about different economies just as it's hard to
think
about a 4th spatial dimension.  People have no experience of it and so
tend
not to think of it.  But if we stretch our imaginations and try to grasp
what it means and how it could affect us, we might find a way to get a lot
more freedom,...economically.


>> and it would take at least a generation to find out.
>> My point is that there are so many horrors that fall out of scarce
money
>> systems, (including both capitalism & communism), that it really is
worth
>> a try.
> 
> I'd be willing to try many things that are different from teh mess of
> today.
> 
        My feelings exactly.  I believe these changes would mean that the
economy
would serve people, instead of the other way around.  We're working with a
backward system right now.

>> 
>> > 
>> >>  Those who don't take it, loose under capitalism.  It's the system
>> >>  that
>> >> gave rise to the saying, "Nice guys finish last."
>> >>
>> >   You're simply claiming things without evidence.  In fact "nice guys
>> > finish
>> > last" suits interventionism far better because under it people have
>> > things
>> > taken away by the not-nice guys.
>> > 
>>         There is ample evidence.  Just look around you... Watch the
>>         evening ne
> ws.
> 
> Non-specific references have no value as evidence Be more specific. What
> you have just said is that "everyone knows it".
> 
> Try that on an exam, and you usually get graded 'F'.
> 
        Unfortunately the only way we have of confirming that "nice guys
finish
last" is by looking at the people living under the system.  The Mafia is
really running our society, although there is the illusion that we have a
democracy.  It's a very competitive system and it's quite true that no one
competes like the Mob.  We're getting back to that psychopathic mentality
again.  They care about nothing but power.  They don't form friendly
relation****ps.  They lie without caring.  That part of their brains is
shut
off and unused.  That's a psychopath.  It's not their fault and we don't
know for certain what causes it, but if you're going to have a competitive
economy, you have to get used to the idea that the psychopaths will
eventually be in charge.


>> Factor in what Americans pay for health care, and education, and Cubans
>> aren't that poor.
> 
> Factor in that Cubans have paid a huge price in the loss of their
> freedoms to get this alleged non-poverty, and Americans are much better
> off, despite the flaws of the american way of life.
> 
        This "loss of freedoms" is just American Propaganda.  Cuba is not
a
dictator****p and Cubans have "mass organisations" at the grass roots level
that control the political decisions.  The people elect their
representatives democratically because these organisations which are open
to everybody actually nominate who runs and candidates are never dropped
into a "riding" by a political party.
        Most Americans think the communist party runs Cuba, but the
reality is that
no party, including the communist party, may field a candidate in the
elections.  It may in fact be the most democratic government in the world.

>>  Add that Cuba now grows organic food all over the
>> country
> 
> 'organic food' is a huge scam that is founded on religious nonsense.
> Hardly a ****ning example for the claimed achievements of Cuba.
> 
        The reduction of toxins in our diet has tremendous health
benefits.  I have
experienced this personally and I still have trouble finding wholesome
foods to complete the process.  They are not always pevelent in our
society.

>> and their diet is much better than that of Americans.
> 
> Only in the sense that it is much lower in calories than that of
> Americans. In that sense, starving Sahel is better than the US, as well.
> 
        No, nutritionally.  Cubans are healthier.

>>  They have
>> less stress and less need to compete.
> 
> So... no stress from being watched eternally by their own government,
> and sent off to prison for saying the wrong things, having the wrong
> ***ual orientation, and so on?
> 
        The U.S. is constantly trying to infiltrate and has conducted
virtual
warfare against Cuba.  They've blown up a passenger jet killing everyone
aboard.  They've planted bombs in hotels.  They've hired journalists to
spread lies in their writings and they've conducted germ warfare with
swine
flu, and crop infestations as well as directly against the people with
Dengue Fever.  Of course their security is high.  It has to be.


>>  They have not been made rich by the
>> revolution,
> 
> Understatement of the year.
> 
>> but they have been empowered by it.
> 
> is that why the number of prisons hav tripled since the revolution? Is
> taht why homo***uals, rock musicians, alleged capitalists and capitalist
> conspirators, foreign agents and anyone who didn't such Fidel's dick
> enough were executed or thrown behind bars?
> 
        Untrue.
        By the way, almost a quarter of the people in prison around the
world are
in U.S. prisons.  It's virtually 1 in a hundred in the States.  Nothing
like that in Cuba.

>>  This is far more
>> meaningful to a healthy life than mad consumerism.
> 
> If you like pre-70 cars and no internet, sure.
> 
        This is a product of the embargo, not Cuba's doing.

-- 
Peace,
Fred
(Remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email).