Re: Immigration talks rouse hate

"ZeD" <zed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:euous3l368d37i29melf5gje27d5nknslp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"ZeD" <zed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:q2eus35efdj0ni3p81d8dktjke7eicdbl4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>> ok, point accepted, but all we need to do is dry up the benefits to
>>> immigration
>>> such as the dishonest employers who skirt the law for their own greedy
>>> interests
>>> and harm us all, including the illegal aliens they hire. If there are
no
>>> free
>>> services then the illegals will go home on their own.  That is
something
>>> most
>>> people in favor of amnesty fail to point out, and something our own
>>> politicians
>>> seem unable or unwilling to do anything about.  Here in California our

>>> two
>>> Federal Senators are both in the pocket of big agro and wont ever
admit 
>>> to
>>> there
>>> being a problem unless it's too few illegal aliens for big agro to use

>>> as
>>> slave
>>> labor.  There is a deep seated sickness in this country of greed and a
>>> willingness to abuse anyone to get a free ride.  It needs to stop now.
>>
>>
>>I'm in California too, and know well the pockets that Feinstien and
Boxer
>>have climbed into.
>>
>>There are many magnets that need to be shut down, jobs, social services,
>>anchor babies, and more. One of the things that promotes illegal 
>>immigration
>>though is the fact that our immigration policy is in chaos. Have you
ever
>>had the misfortune of having to deal with Immigration Services?
>>
>>Dude! You have no idea how ****ed up the system is. But, it is the
system
>>and I do not give illegal immigrants a bye just because the system is
>>broken. I know from personal experience that people will wait for legal
>>status, but the status has to be granted faster than it takes for a
young
>>adult to become a grand parent. We have to fix the process while we do
the
>>other things you suggest. We can not do anything in a vacuum of all of
the
>>other things -- increase quotas, remove magnets, secure the border.
>>
> How fast is fast enough?

Good question, I don't have an answer. Clearly the answer lies in the 
quotas. If the quotas are higher, the wait-time is shorter, but I don't 
think we (whoever makes these kinds of decisions) should simply pull a 
number out of our ass because it feels good.


I don't think it's possible to make it fast enough to
> satisfy their desire to come here in the numbers that want to come here.

Agreed. The system is broken, that much is clear to me, but "fixing" it by

breaking it in the exact opposite direction does not do any good either. 
There should be a point somewhere between what we have and a free-for-all 
that works better, but I don't think you and I know where that point is,
or 
if we are actually at the saturation point where the country is taking in 
all of the lawful people we can.


Do
> you really want an avalanche of Latinos pouring into our country?  Do
you 
> really
> believe we could possible assimilate all the people who want to come
here 
> when
> they want it?

No, I have no belief we can take all that want to come here. But we can
take 
more lawful immigrants than we are taking because we manage to assimilate 
the illegal people we take. There are certainly some that come here that
we 
would never let in, but by the same token we take people illegally that we

would welcome legally if they would simply apply and wait for permission.
We 
can fix the system to accomodate those people, then agressively pursue the

rejects that come in illegally.



 Talk about chaos!  Look at what is happening now because of so
> many of them coming here at the same time. Maybe, just maybe, we could 
> consider
> raising some quotas for immigration if we can stop the flood that is 
> happening
> now.  Stopping the flood of uneducated, illiterate, poor Latinos coming 
> into
> this
> country is the top priority.  We can talk about the rest later at a more

> relaxed
> time. You call our immigration policy broken?  Why is it broken?  Cause 
> they
> are flooding our country you call a perfectly good immigration policy 
> broken?

I call it "broken," because there are millions of illegal immigrants here 
that we would welcome if the quotas were set higher. I'm not suggesting we

blindly raise the quotas just because there is a flood, but I think we can

manage the flood better if the system worked better.




> Or is it cause we don't want to allow our borders to be over run by
people 
> from
> all over the world. The only reason Mexicans are able to come here in 
> greater
> numbers than European or Asian countries is due to their proximity and
our
> broken government that is controlled by cor****ations that want the flood

> of
> cheap labor pouring into America.  Nothing about our immigration
policies 
> are
> broken except in the minds of those who want the borders open to any and

> all
> who wish to come here and I for one think our population is already to 
> freaking
> high in California.  Let them immigrate to Wyoming and build something 
> there.
> Wyoming needs them. lol  This discussion is getting laughable.  If it 
> wasn't
> so im****tant I'd actually be laughing.

Well, I'm not an Open Border advocate. I accept the argument that the
system 
is broken, and the result is at least partially responsible for the flood
of 
illegals. I think that we need more than a wall to stop the flood.

There are the magnets that we've built into the equation -- whether by 
accident or on purpose, I don't know -- that have to be taken away. Then
we 
have to look at the quotas, or consider the guest worker idea that has
been 
tossed out by Bush and others. And we have to look at the physical
barrier.

All of these things have to be taken together, it makes no sense to do any

one of them in isolation of the others, or to isolate any one of them from

the others because it makes us look bad.

I got into this thread by saying that the latino advocacy groups are 
painting this as a hate-the-immigrant issue. It is not a hate the
immigrant 
issue, it's a control-the-illegal-immigrant-issue. Whatever we have to do
to 
control the illegal immigrants is fair game.

Frankly, Mexico should do more to keep Mexicans at home. Mexico could give

everybody a job in the oil fields, and sell the oil to the USA, and keep
the 
entire population employed for a very long time. Mexico has large oil
fields 
that are not tapped. Mexico has vast expanses of land that are well suited

for farming. The problem Mexico has is corruption.