Re: Immigration talks rouse hate

"ZeD" <zed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:8su2t3tdeqq7ga4quiji47hd76kmkh9vng@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:36:27 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:fNWdnQuVH8GgM03anZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:5padnfffT593FE3anZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Josh Rosenbluth" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:bcHzj.12763$v47.6113@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on ZeD's comments, and his views are prevelant (your 
>>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>>> to accommodate large numbers of new legal immigrants while calling

>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> all those here illegally to leave is rare), I think you are wrong.
>>>>>>> The issue, at its heart is about legal immigration levels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm ONLY saying that this is not a hate issue, it's solely an
illegal
>>>>>> immigration issue. The problem isn't immigrants, the problem is 
>>>>>> illegal
>>>>>> immigrants.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you read ZeD's posts?  He is clearly saying we should not let
>>>>> Mexicans into the USA - legally or illegally) - in larger numbers
than
>>>>> we do now.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He's wrong.
>>>
>>> I know you disagree with him.  But his opinion is more common than 
>>> yours.
>>>
>>>> But, my point is not ZeD and his feelings, or you and yours. Or me
and
>>>> mine. My point is that the Mexican advocates in American -- go back
to
>>>> the original post -- are saying that anything we (America) do is
driven
>>>> by hate, our effrorts to control the flow of immigrants is not driven

>>>> by
>>>> hate, it's driven by an out-of-control system that has resulted in 
>>>> chaos
>>>> and massive numbers of ILLEGAL immigrants.
>>>
>>> What drives ZeD's viewpoint?
>>>
>>
>>Let me try a new tack. If the discussion is about immigration, then
maybe 
>>it
>>is driven by hate -- assuming the topic is to stop immigrants. If the
>>discussion is only about illegal immigration, then the hate is not the
>>driving factor.
>>
>>If ZeD, and others, allow the discussion to degenerate to the broader 
>>issue
>>of immigration, then perhaps the author of the article that got this
>>discussion going is right, it's about hate. But, if I prevail and keep
the
>>topic confined to illegal immigration, that is not a hateful discussion.
>>
>>I maintain that the vast majority of Americans are concerned with
illegal
>>immigration and border security, they accept legal immigration as 
>>necessary
>>and good. Getting control of our borders and the flow of persons coming 
>>here
>>is not hateful. Blockading the entry points and shutting down the visa
>>process is hateful. That is several steps beyond where I think the
>>discussion should be, and beyond where it really is for most people.
>>
> I don't give a flying **** what any of you think my motivation is for
> wanting control of our borders to be secured.  Yes, anger from watching
> illegal's walking our streets in mass, demanding what they have no right
> to demand, carrying foreign flags and sometimes American flags turned
> upside down has caused many of us to become militantly opposed to
amnesty
> for the 12 million or more illegal aliens here today. Anger that our
> own government has failed to secure our borders when in the last 6 years
> they have continually told us we are under a threat of terrorist attack.
> Hate immigrants?  Hell no I don't hate immigrants.  That is an over
> simplication that the pro amnesty people use to further their case for
> amnesty.  As far as I care, the path to citizen****p starts on the other
> side of the border.  If you wish to call it hate by all means do so. I
> don't care what you call it.


Bingo! The path to citizen****p starts on the other side of the border.

This tells me that ZeD is not opposed to immigration, he is opposed to 
ILLEGAL immigration. We may sharpen our pencils differently in outlining 
causes and solutions, but at the end of the day, we have the same root
view. 
Illegal immigration is the problem. That is not a "hateful," position, as 
the Hispanic Advocacy Council would have us believe.