On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 23:56:50 -0700 (PDT),
juanjo <jonpetry@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome
> Agendas: Extinction!" <xanadu222_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Let's be clear about some facts. Craig has decided to post his
> ramblings taken from nativist websites and demagogues like Lou Dobbs
> in newsgroups where they are off topic.
SO MUCH for your "FACTS." Since ALL that I wrote in my posts
has been my OWN original writig, except for times when its necessary to
include one or more links or excerpts to substantiate *actual* FACTS
that I have been presenting. (And I have posted NOTHING written or
said by the HIGHLY-intelligent and sensible Lou Dobbs of CNN, even
though he is RIGHT on the money on the ILLEGAL alien issue.)
> In Craig's World all answers are simple, black and white with no
> compromise, no reflection in causes, no shadings of grey.
Wrong again. Th plan I've proposed would make the following very
REAL compromises:
(1) It would allow the ILLEGAL aliens to keep on working in their
ILLEGAL employment for either 90 or 180 days AFTER
passage of the law, and before its enforcement against
EMPLOYERS (not the aliens) begins... to allow them to earn
enough money to return to their homelamds peacefully and
comfortably.
(2) It would call for NO prosecutions or de****tations UNLESS
*other* crimes were involved. (See SIG, below.)
> But the real world has never worked like that and before one engages
> in an action one always should look at the long term consequences of
> that action.
I have. NO significant adverse consequences -- unless one con-
siders the fact that the people who never should have employed
ILLEGALS in the first place would have to find LEGAL employees to
replace them. And they brought THAT on upon themselves, through
their greed and abject stupidity.
> Craig's points 1 through 4 are more or less correct albeit somewhat
> what stated inflammatorily stated.
(Assuming now that you're referring to my SIG. The points therein
are FACTUAL -- not "inflammatory" -- unless the reader is into
coddling criminals.)
> Point No. 5 however is a carefully crafted rewrite of history. For
> most of US history, immigration to the United States was nothing more
> than getting on a ****p and coming ashore.
>
> ****pping companies offered special discounted steerage fares to
> fill their ****ps as tightly as possible. When regulations were put into
> effect in the 19th century, they simply forbade Asians, professional
> gamblers and prostitutes along with people with communicable diseases,
> from entering. Later, communists and anarchists were added. Finally
> after WWII the laws were amended to make them "fairer".
Around SIXTY years ago.
> Those laws established quotas for countries, made family reunifi-
> cation the priority in immigration and set us up for the mess we have
> now. Essentially unless you marry a US citizen or resident or are
> related to one, or fit into one of several very limited exceptions,
> e.g., refugees, special investors, specially-trained workers.
>
> So Reality shows that most people who came to the USA prior to
> WWII simply walked off the boats, went through Elllis Island and once
> registered headed off to a new life. This does not discount in any
> way the suffering and sacrifices those folks made, which btw includes
> my family. But if the present regulations had been in effect then,
> virtually all of those people would have been denied entry into the
> USA. So for Craig to say that these so-called "criminals" should not
> be rewarded for ignoring proper channels and is an insult to those
> who came legally is a emotionally based and factually incorrect
> statement. There are no proper channels to allow for entry and
> haven't been for decades.
Laws are in place that make the procedures for immigration VERY
clear -- for those who seek to OBEY them.
> The word "criminal" is emotionally loaded.
No. FACTUAL. They've broken federal law.
> For most people a criminal is a morally deficient person. Someone
> who preys upon others through robbery or burglary etc.
According to our system of jurisprudences, it is people who break
all but very MINOR laws. (E.g., going 10 mph over the speed limit
is not a criminal ofense. Nor is jaywalking.)
> The vast majority of aliens who entered the United States without
> inspection are not criminals in any traditional sense.
They broke a significant FEDERAL law, and are criminals.
> They come here, work and raise their families. They take jobs
> which deduct from their salary, federal, state, and social security
> taxes.
Those who have taxes withheld could do so ONLY by having
a FORGED Social Security card. I believe that possession and use
of such a do***ent is a felony. One MORE criminal strike against
the ILLEGAL aliens.!
> They buy homes, set up businesses and otherwise are model
> citizens.
Yeah. Al Capone managed to be one of those, despite many hits
and other felonies he ordered or comitted. They FINALLY were only
able to get him on tax evasion.
I think you'll find that all who use Social Security cards that have
been forged, in order to accomplish those things, are FELONS.
> While about half come from Mexico or through Mexico from Central
> America, the other half are from all overthe world having come here
> on tourist visas who simply stayed.
OVERstaying a tourist visa is ILLEGAL. As in, against the law.
> Large numbers come from Ireland and Poland for example.
> According to the Pew Trust, the economic contribution of these
> folks is in the billions of dollars annually. Without the money they
> contribute to social security for example...
...using PHONY Social Security cards? Some endorsement!
> ...the Social Security Trust would be bankrupt.
If the SS system couldn't survive without input from people
having FORGED SS cards, the system is already fatally flawed!
> They constitute 40% of all small businesses in the USA as this
> is the easiest way to get around the Internal Revenue issues about
> taxpayer issues.
How do you figure that? I've had a small buiness for 30
years, have the services of a CPA, and pay taxes through
the SCHNOZ!!
> They work hard, help build the economy and in general
> contribute to society in a positive fa****on.
Gee. I wonder how the USA did so well WITHOUT them
*before* they sneaked in?
> The irony of the present situation is amusing in a twisted fa****on.
> Up until the Carter Administration, hundreds of thousands of Hispanic
> migrant workers crossed the border each year.
LEGALLY-admitted migrant workers, yes.
> They worked throughout the USA mainly in agriculture or agri-
> cultural processing. The border was pretty much ****ous so it
> could be crossed easily. The men would come, work and return
> home at the end of the season. They did not stay in the USA as
> a general rule. During the Carter era, criticism was made about
> how ****ous the border was and attempts were made to tighten
> up security. These continued after Reagan became president.
> The result was immediate. Where before people would simply walk
> across on their own, the use of "coyotes", human smugglers became
> common as it was harder to cross.
Are you saying that those same LEGALLY-admitted migrant
workers could no longers STILL come and go in their previous
fa****on, with just maybe a little extra paperwork?
> The men crossing had to work harderto make the cost of the...
...ILLEGAL...
> ...crossing fee...
...to the criminal "coyotes"...
> ...as well as money they needed to sup****t their family.
That's where they made their mistake. Just BEFORE they became
criminals by paying human smugglers, they should have INSTEAD
either (1) stayed home, or (2) done the paperwork it would have
taken to enter LEGALLY as a migrant worker.
> They started staying longer and eventually simply brought
> their families across rather than spend all the money they were
> spending previously as well as going very long times without
> seeing their wives and children.
BIG mistake!! If they'd only done the paperwork properly,
instead of breaking the law, they could have worked there as
before, and gone home again each time when the harvests were
in.
> The Reagan era also saw in increase in civil wars in Central
> America, funded by the US against so-called communists. These
> wars in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua created hundreds
> of thousands of refugees who were without homes, security or
> a way to feed themselves. Many headed to the United
> States and settled there.
So they headed for Uncle Sucker instead of emigrating legally
to MEXICO, instead, which was CLOSER to them. "Brilliant."
> So it is US policies which contributed to the settlement of large
> numbers of "illegal" aliens.
Not "illegal." Illegal. To the south there was all of South
America. To the north, Mexico. To the east, Cuba. What
made them think they could flout OUR laws with impunity?
Because we ARE suckers?
> The other simple fact that Craig and...
...others who think that our laws exist for a REASON...
> ... ignore is that demographics argue against them. The US has
> been experiencing a net loss of people to fill positions, particularly
> lower paid positions in its economy.
Wrong. Even though it used to be a desired GOAL, the USA
has never come anywhere near achieving ZPG -- Zero popula-
tion growth. Thus, workers have ALWAYS been available. What's
the LOWEST unemployment figure over the last 30 or 40 years?
Something like 4%, I believe. Now it's 5.5%. We have PLENTY
of workers and potential workers. (5% would be over 15 million
people in this nation of 303 million. WITHOUT the ILLEGALS, we
could get the unemployment rate down to 1% or so.)
> The retirement of the boomers which will start making a larger
> impact in the next few years and will contribute to that deficit.
But that hasn't happened yet. If it does, all we need to do
is increase the quotas for immigration, across-the-board. NOT
rocket science. Easy arithmetic.
> The economic pressure is to bring in people to do the work.
> American citizens do not want to be gardeners, pick strawberries or
> gut chickens. They will not work for the wages being paid for such
> work.
They WILL if NO other work happens to be available. Beats
starving. And that's always worked in the past. People didn't
fancy that menial work BEFORE the illegal interlopers arrived, and
still, the work always got done anyway.
> So the fact is that we need these people to fill positions going
> vacant. If they are removed, the economic impact would be highly
> unpleasant.
Not so, for all the reasons I just detailed.
> We need a more equitable immigration system as well as control
> over our borders but this is not what Craig and ...
...others who RESPECT the law...
> ...want.
<LIE-snip>
You did NOT addrss the points I made in 5, 5(a), and 5(b)
in the SIG. NOR did you address the actual bill that CURRENTLY
**is** being considered by Congress, referenced by my Point
No. 6.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
FACTS about ILLEGAL Aliens
(1) ILLEGAL aliens did not belong here in the FIRST place.
(2) Federal laws prohibit undo***ented entry into the USA.
(3) Federal laws STRICTLY prohibit WORKING in the USA without
proper and legal do***entation (such as a Green Card.)
(4) Every ILLEGAL alien is a CRIMINAL by default, for entering
illegally, and even MORE of one if WORKING here.
(5) Throughout our history, tens of millions of people have
worked HARD to EARN residency and citizen****p here.
(a) CRIMINALS should NEVER be *rewarded* for being
criminals.
(b) According LEGAL status to ILLEGAL, criminal aliens
without their INSTEAD applying for it through proper
channels and EARNING it would be a massive **insult**
to the millions who did it the RIGHT and LEGAL way.
(6) Urge your Congressperson to SUP****T H.R. 1940.
More information:
http://apifar.blogspot.com/2008/01/almost-all-of-usas-14-million-illegal.html
If the URL doesn't work, combine its components,
below, in your browser:
http://
apifar.blogspot.com/
2008/01/almost-all-of-usas-14-million-illegal.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com
-- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com
-- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
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-- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry.
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