Re: Expensive oil is the only way to stop gluttony

Major Debacle wrote:
> Rich wrote:
>> Major Debacle wrote:
>>> Rich wrote:
>>>> Major Debacle wrote:
>>>>> Rich wrote:
>>>>>> Major Debacle wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you actually think a that a man smart enough to make billions 
>>>>>>> of dollars dealing in oil is going to be stupid enough not to put 
>>>>>>> a wet finger to the wind?
>>>>>> I think you are not smart enough to realize and understand that the
>>>>>> wind does not always blow.
>>>>> Not even *you* are stupid enough to think that.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the wind blows for only 364 days out 365 a year, is that reason 
>>>>> enough not to put a wind farm there?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the wind blows for only *363* days out 365 a year, is that 
>>>>> reason enough not to put a wind farm there?
>>>> It not only has to blow, it has to blow fast enough to generate
>>>> meaningful power. I don't know how many times I've driven past
>>>> the wind farms in CA and all were at a dead standstill or when
>>>> only a few were turning.
>>>>
>>>>> At what point does it become uneconomical not to put in a wind farm?
>>>> Wrong question. At what point does it *become* economical?
>>>>
>>>>> If the fact that the wind does not blow continuously in a given area
>>>> There's no place where the wind blows continuously. Is there any
>>>> place where the demand for power is not continuous?
>>> Are you making the point that wind power is totally useless for 
>>> electricity generation?
>>
>> Read what I wrote.
> 
> I take that as "decline to state".

Already stated.

>>> Or that wind power alone is unfeasible for electricity generation?
>>
>> This is true.
>>
>>> I'm not making the case for depending solely on wind power for 
>>> electricity generation.
>>
>> All so-called renewable sources are intermittent. Solar does not work
>> at night, it works less well on cloudy days, and heaven forbid if
there's
>> a heavy snow or a sandstorm.
>>
>> So basically you can't back up one 'green' source with another, you
>> need a traditional source big enough to cover the baseload when your
>> 'green' power goes offline.
> 
> Home-based batteries work in conjunction with photovoltaic cells and 
> wind mills to provide energy at night or on windless days. Photovoltaic 
> cells are available that are energized by infrared light which 
> penetrates cloud covering.

If you want to provide emergency light during an outage batteries
work great. If you want to power your house at night, that's a
different story. Ignoring the cost and space requirements, there
remains the issue that there are no commercial offerings sized
for the home, and there may be building codes and zoning laws that
add to the cost and/or prohibit the installation.

> You really are shoveling **** against the tide.

This may seem a sound argument to an AGW believer.

>>> You realize that, don't you?
>>
>> You realize that this means you get to pay for 'renewable' power
>> twice?
> 
> Say what you will, renewable energy is the future.

There is no such thing as renewable energy.

> If you want to live in the past, go right ahead. 

I'm living in the present.

> The timid and the meek often prefer the 
> security of the known to the danger and risk of the unknown.

Which has what to do with the reality of the intermittently of
wind and solar power? This is reality and you seem threatened
by it.

>>> So if you are trying to make the case that wind power is totally
useless
>>
>> That's your misreading of something I did not write.
> 
> Okay then. I have you nailed down as admitting that wind generated 
> electricity is a valid technology. Good, that's a start.

Depending on what you mean by valid.

Perhaps it would be better to discuss concepts such as viability?

> Now... the next thing to be aware of is that batteries can be charged 
> when the wind is blowing and the sun is ****ning to provide energy for 
> times of calm and times of darkness.

How many batteries you got charging?

> Given your current rate of 
> acceptance of new ideas, this should take you about 3 to 6 months.

No new ideas here. No batteries either it seems.

> See ya then.

As you  wish.

Cheers,

Rich