Re: There is NO EXCUSE for being an ILLEGAL chilton

Ray Fischer wrote:
> J. J. Farrell <jjf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> Immigration offenses are not a criminal offense.
>> Since when?
> 
> Quite a while.
> 
>> Are you claiming that 8USC1325 has been repealed or 
>> overturned?
> 
> I suggest that you read it.  Carefully.

I've read it carefully may times over the years. It's pretty clear and 
straightforward. If you have read it carefully and genuinely believe 
that entering the USA without proper inspection is not a criminal 
offense, then you have comprehension problems. You are wrong.

> Note paragraph (b) that
> states that it is a civil offense to entering the country without
> permission.

Noted, but how is that relevant to this discussion? We are talking about 
the criminal offenses, which are specified in subsection (a) and cover 
more cases. The civil penalties in subsection (b) were added in 1996, 
and as the final sentence of subsection (b) says "Civil penalties under 
this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or 
other civil penalties that may be imposed."

> Notice that there isn't even any mention of entering the
> country legally and then overstaying.

It is a criminal offense under 8USC1325 to enter or attempt to enter the 
USA except at a time and place specified by the immigration authorities. 
It is a criminal offense under 8USC1325 to avoid proper inspection on 
entering. It is a criminal offense under 8USC1325 to claim to be 
entering the USA as a visitor when the actual intention is to stay 
beyond the end of the admission period.

It is not a criminal offense under 8USC1325 to enter as a visitor with 
the intention of leaving before the end of the admission period, but 
subsequently change your mind and overstay. Such people are liable to 
arrest de****tation and re-entry ban under other laws and regulations, 
but I'm not sure of the status of their action. The small minority of 
illegal immigrants who are in this category are not criminals under 
8USC1325, I don't know if they are criminals according to other laws.