Well, Curt, to begin at the end of your comments:
(1) Anthony Summers is a British journalist and musician -- not an
historian. He has no record whatsoever of serious research into FBI
history. His book (which I have read) is full of 50-year-old rumors
and gossip that has been discredited by virtually all of our nation's
top scholars on Hoover and the FBI---even those (like Dr. Athan
Theoharis) who are severe critics of Hoover and the Bureau. In fact,
much of what YOU think you know about illegal or unethical conduct by
the FBI, is the result of meticulous research by scholars like
Theoharis who have uncovered previously unknown material in FBI files
-- including what remains of Hoover's "personal and confidential"
files as well as his Associate Director, Clyde Tolson.
(2) As far as the beginning of your message is concerned regarding
"suppress" and "shut down" etc. I'd be interested in learning how
you went about verifying her accusations or statements? Did Brown
provide any bibliographic references you could check for accuracy?
Was she quoting from PRIMARY sources or secondary sources? or what?
(3) With respect to your comment re: sons following in father's
footsteps: Again, this is more of an ASSUMPTION than anything
provable. I tend to stay away from assumptions. It makes factual
discussion easier. Plus, as I am sure you know, many times the "sons"
rebel against their fathers -- the builders of the empire than gave
them their inherited wealth -- and that includes their political
views.
(4) With respect to your comments regarding CPUSA member****p: Your
comments really don't have much substantive meaning because the most
im****tant aspect of ANY organization is NOT the formal member****p but
the state-of-mind "members" who may never join but who may contribute
money, or express their sup****t, and repeat the allegations and
distribute the propaganda of the group(s) which they are NOT members
of. The FBI estimated that there were at least 10 "fellow-travelers"
or "sympathizers" for every CP member. That's probably fairly
accurate for most groups --- including the JBS. Incidentally, I have
the FBI file on CPUSA member****p. The Bureau's "top informants"
within the CPUSA was Morris Childs and his brother Jack. Morris gave
the FBI copies of CPUSA do***ents, mailing lists, list of
contributors, subscription lists, etc.
Jim Marr's comment about the number of FBI "informants" within the
CPUSA is not shared by most knowledgeable scholars. He may be
conflating "sources" with "informants". A "source" may re****t
pertinent information about some matter (based upon information in his/
her possession which he/she may not have verified for accuracy or info
which is limited to a particular time and place) whereas the
"informant" is often actually INSIDE the targeted organization. ALL
informants provide RAW INFORMATION which has to be evaluated, weighed,
and compared to other RAW INFORMATION being received---including from
other informants. So, there's nothing particularly magical about
claiming to be an "FBI informant" -- particularly when many of them
were regarded as "unreliable" or "of unknown reliability".
(5) I don't understand your comment in reply to mine about Harry
Dean. If, as the FBI Agent in Charge of Los Angeles field office
stated, Harry Dean was never an FBI informant nor was he connected in
any way to the FBI nor did he "infiltrate" the JBS for the FBI ---
then one has to ask the obvious question: why is Dean lying? As I
said previously, there are ways to establish whether or not someone
was genuinely an informant for the FBI. I have read a lot of Dean's
comments on "Education Forum" and he clearly doesn't know what he is
talking about in many cases. BUT -- if you feel his remarks are
credible --- so be it. Just don't be surprised when you get egg on
your face when someone comes along and disproves Dean's assertions.
(6) Your comment about my 65-page re****t being "hard to read"
intrigues me. It is written in plain English and quotes numerous FBI
do***ents. What's hard to understand? And if you can't make it
through 65 pages of material with reams of sup****ting bibliographic
references so you can check the accuracy for yourself --- then how do
you expect me to believe that you are capable of understanding and
analyzing more COMPLEX information --- especially if two or more
sources you trust CONTRADICT each other or even their own statements
(at different times)? How do you determine what is accurate and
truthful? Your methodology would be interesting to discuss.
On May 17, 9:54=EF=BF=BDpm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 17, 5:58=EF=BF=BDpm, ernie1241 <ernie1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:>
Curt: =
I have no idea who Madeleine Brown is or what she bases her
> > statements upon. =EF=BF=BDHave you investigated her sup****ting
do***enta=
tion?
>
> Well, yes. =EF=BF=BDIt is one of those folks that they really had to
supre=
ss,
> shut-down, discredit, because as they say she was too much of a
> smoking gun. =EF=BF=BDThis pattern existed all throughout the
investigatio=
n of
> JFK especially when the public didn't buy it and the real research and
> investigation began. =EF=BF=BDAs far as JBS, it wouldn't be very hard to
> fathom since his sons would likely be following in H.L's footsteps.
=EF=BF=
=BDI
> hope you got a chance to peruse the chapter I gave you to the extent
> of his radio and literature he put out and how powerful he actually
> was. =EF=BF=BDHere is a few things Madeleine put out....after most of
the
> conspirators were dead and gone.
> Robert Gaylon Ross 81 Minute Interview with Madeleine Brown
>
> http://hubpages.com/hub/Madeleine_Duncan_Brown
>
> Subject: JFK Mistress Speaks Out --- Prisonplanet.com
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D79lOKs0Kr_Y
>
> The Murchison Party (M. Brown, May Newman)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DawGbwIIIYug&feature=3Drelated
>
> =EF=BF=BDJ. Edgar Hoover, Oil Friends, and 'Non-Existant' Mafia
>
> =EF=BF=BDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9fqMA9YV3ks&feature=3Drelated
>
> > H.L. Hunt did enjoy gambling and he had a "health" fetish interest in
> > unorthodox remedies-- but I've never seen any data suggesting that he
> > was ever taking drugs -- by which I presume you mean illegal drugs?
>
> I will try to look it up. =EF=BF=BDJack Ruby was the biggest heroin
dealer=
> (via FBI informancy) in Dallas via Havana. =EF=BF=BDHe made a lot of
fligh=
ts
> to Havana and was not the 'two-bit strip joint owner' that is
> ****trayed by WC defenders. =EF=BF=BDIf I remember right, H.L had a
penchan=
t
> for coke. =EF=BF=BDH.L. basically was an untouchable in all the JFK mess
> because most of his doings were by money, especially his gung ho
> attitude of overthrowing Castro and financing a lot of the stuff going
> on in Lake Ponchartrain. =EF=BF=BDA lot of right-wingers were behind
that =
too,
> like the Luce's of Time-Life.
>
> > Yes -- "lots of people" were FBI "informants" but many times, people
> > who CLAIMED to have been an FBI "undercover agent" or "informant" were
> > lying. =EF=BF=BDI do***ent this in my JBS re****t -- chapter 7 and also
i=
n my
> > new re****t on Edgar Bundy (Church League of America).
>
> Here's a fact. =EF=BF=BDIn 1971 the American Communist Party was down to
2=
,800
> people from the 1940's when it was up to 80,000. =EF=BF=BDIn 1971 it was
> estimated that over half of the FBI informants were Communists.
=EF=BF=BDP=
g.
> 216 of Crossfire..Jim Marrs.
>
> > Legitimate FBI informants were rated in terms of their reliability.
> > Initially, they were on probationary status in order weed out those
> > whose information was useless or non-credible. =EF=BF=BDThere are ways
t=
o
> > establish who GENUINELY was an FBI informant -- and I suspect that
> > someone like Harry Dean has never been rigorously questioned about his
> > claims.
>
> Whether it's bona fide or not,....his claims of infiltration must
> stand on their own merits.
>
> > Your comments about J. Edgar Hoover and the JBS are not sup****ted by
> > any evidence I have seen. =EF=BF=BDI have acquired more than 30,000
page=
s of
> > FBI HQ and field office files on the JBS and its prominent members and
> > sympathizers. =EF=BF=BDIn fact, in many instances, I am the ONLY
person =
who
> > has ever requested and received those do***ents --- so I can't imagine
> > what your statements are based on. =EF=BF=BDI suggest you read my JBS
Re=
****t
> > (65 pages). =EF=BF=BDYou will discover the attitude of senior FBI
offici=
als
> > (including Hoover) about Robert Welch and the JBS. =EF=BF=BDI cite
numer=
ous
> > direct quotations from FBI re****ts and memos.
>
> I can only say what I think. =EF=BF=BDAt the time the Mafia was taking a
> stronghold in America, JEH only had 4 agents doing a desk job on
> them. =EF=BF=BDJEH went after people that were non-threatening.
=EF=BF=BDI=
think he
> thought of the JBS as eccentric. =EF=BF=BDI am one to go along with some
o=
f
> the stuff they say, like what they would agree on in Gary Allen's None
> Dare Call It Conspiracy (an online read). =EF=BF=BDI do think the JBS
has
> people like H.L. Hunt who think the commies are out to steal his
> money...and are duped by those who know in those circles that
> capitalism is what gave Marx and the Bolsheviks their source for
> propaganda and power via Wall Street. =EF=BF=BDAnyway, that's why I
asked =
to
> draw out what you know instead of going through 65 pages of not-so-
> easy to read do***ents and stuff. =EF=BF=BDAs far as agents and
suppressin=
g,
> as far as the JFK assassination, you just have to look at the
> bumbling's. =EF=BF=BDTheir closely moniotring of LHO (who was an FBI
infor=
mant
> by many) - only to say they knew nothing when they took him into
> custody. =EF=BF=BDThe teletypes that were received by agents in Dallas
> disappearing...and most of all the evidence gathered by the Dallas
> Police and photographed..confiscated by Hoover and the FBI..to be
> returned 4 days later with half the evidence gone to redacted, to all
> the things they had to do. =EF=BF=BDSomeone had to come up with the idea
t=
hat
> one man was guilty and it came from that office within an hour after
> the shooting, and publicly a few days later by memo (without any real
> evidence). =EF=BF=BDYou can find much of that stuff online in Harvey and
L=
ee
> for specifics. =EF=BF=BDIf you want to know the man Hoover and how he
hand=
led
> or manhandled his agents...I might suggest an Anthony Summers
> book..like The Secret and Confidential Life of J.Edgar Hoover.
>
> CJ
|
