Rupert wrote:
> On Jul 6, 6:45 am, Rudy Canoza <pi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Rupert wrote:
>>> On Jul 6, 1:55 am, Rudy Canoza <pi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>> Rupert, slavishly adoring of a third-rate philosophy prof who spent
his
>>>> career at an academic backwater, uncritically quoted the third-rate
prof
>>>> and blabbered:
>>> It would be widely agreed in the academic community
>> No.
>>
>>> that the author of
>>> "The Case for Animal Rights" is not a "third-rate prof
>> Regan spent his entire career at an academic backwater, and if not for
>> having staked out an extreme position on a controversial topic, his
>> entire career would have gone unnoticed in the academic world.
>>
>
> There's more to it than just taking an extreme position on a
> controversial topic,
That's *all* he did.
> anyway, so in that case the question of how highly Regan's work is
> regarded by academics is not really all that im****tant.
You're contradicting yourself again. You said he wasn't a third-rate
prof, indicating you think he was more highly regarded in the academic
world; now you're saying it's not im****tant.
He *was* a third-rate prof, a nobody, at a backwater.
>>>>> [Regan, the third-rate prof:] Consider this possible scenario. Why
not hire someone to infiltrate
>>>>> the animal rights movement, as an agent provocateur, with one main
>>>>> purpose: to find a malleable person in the movement who could be
>>>>> "encouraged" (shall we say) to try to do something that would really
>>>>> discredit ARAs. Like, maybe this person could be "encouraged" to try
>>>>> to murder someone. And not just anyone. No, the "someone" should be
a
>>>>> pillar of the community, someone who (what an odd coincidence) just
>>>>> happened to be a leader in a major animal user industry, someone who
>>>>> just happened to have been famously outspoken in his criticisms of
>>>>> ARAs. An attempt on his life would be perfect. It would show the
>>>>> public that ARAs really are extremists who will stop at nothing to
>>>>> further their ends. It is not hard to visualize the headline:
"Animal
>>>>> Rights Terrorist Attempts to Murder Pillar of Community".
>>>>> A few problems would have to be solved. It takes time to find the
>>>>> right person for the job. It takes money to pay all the players. Who
>>>>> is going to come up with the necessary cash? Well, suppose the
pillar
>>>>> himself could pay for the attempt on his life. Suppose the pillar
>>>>> himself (such is his influence) could arrange to have the local
police
>>>>> on hand to arrest the would-be murderer. "Nah", you might say, "This
>>>>> is too fanciful, too conspiratorial. I don't think anyone in a major
>>>>> animal user industry would ever do anything like this." Think again.
>>>>> Leon Hirsch, past president of the Norwalk, Connecticut-based U. S.
>>>>> Surgical Cor****ation, played the role of the pillar of the
community.
>>>>> Hirsch's former company manufactures staples used in place of
ordinary
>>>>> sutures in many operations. During Hirsch's tenure, physicians
>>>>> received training by practicing on live dogs, who were vivisected,
>>>>> then killed. ARAs (led by Friends of Animals, also locate in
Norwalk)
>>>>> mounted an in-your-face campaign against Hirsch and his company back
>>>>> in the late 1980s. His ingenious way of getting even was to put up
the
>>>>> necessary money to arrange for an ARA to try to murder him.
>>>>> On November 11, 1989, a man on the payroll of a firm Hirsch had
hired
>>>>> drove a young woman named Fran Trutt, a self-professed ARA, along
with
>>>>> her two recently purchased pipe bombs, from New York City to
Norwalk.
>>>>> When she placed the bombs adjacent to Hirsch's parking space,
Hirsch's
>>>>> friends in the Norwalk police department just happened to be on hand
>>>>> to arrest her.
>>>>> The resulting story (not the bombs, which never exploded) was the
real
>>>>> bombshell. There it was: "Animal Rights Terrorist Attempts to Murder
>>>>> Pillar of Community". As John C. Stauber and Sheldom Rampton
observe,
>>>>> "Normally, of course, company presidents do not arrange their own
>>>>> murder, but Hirsch was neither crazy nor suicidal. He was trying to
>>>>> engineer an embarrassing scandal that would discredit the animal
>>>>> rights movement."
>>>>> Hirsch would have succeeded, too, except for one thing: the ensuing
>>>>> trial brought ot light extensive tape transcripts that implicated
>>>>> everyone, from Hirsch on down, who had hatched the plot to discredit
>>>>> ARAs. Friends of Animals sued Hirsch, who sold U. S. Surgical in
1998,
>>>>> but their suit was unsuccessful, and he never faced any criminal
>>>>> charges. Perhaps not surprisingly, Fran Trutt was the only person to
>>>>> serve time (a year in prison, followed by a year on probation). She
>>>>> seems to have left the movement.
>>>> False. There was no entrapment, and the firm did not set Trutt up.
>>> Well, that's interesting, I wonder why Hirsch doesn't sue Regan for
>>> defamation.
>>> "No entrapment", eh? Strong words, Rudy.
>> No, the accusation of entrapment is what would be strong language, were
>> it not for the fact that every criminal in modern history claims to
have
>> been entrapped. This **** Trutt was not entrapped at all. Entrapment,
>> at least in American jurisprudence, occurs when someone is induced by
>> law enforcement to commit a crime that he would not otherwise have
>> committed; that he showed no inclination to commit until pressure was
>> applied by police. There was no "agent provocateur" in this case - the
>> ***** Trutt willingly engaged herself in the conspiracy to murder
>> Hirsch, and she obtained the materials for her pipe bombs entirely
>> independently of any coercion by the private security agents.
>>
>
> All right. If we can find sources that bear that out, fine. :)
>
> I note that you were the first person to use the word "entrapment".
No. It was in the New York Times article I cited. It's also what Regan
- the third-rate hack at a backwater - was suggesting when he kept
writing "encouraged" in quotation marks.
>
>> Regan completely misrepresented what happened. That's what third-rate
>> philosophy profs at academic backwaters do.
>>
>
> I'll look into the matter further. There's some discussion of it in
> Peter Singer's "Ethics into Action" as well, I think.
Oh, no doubt, no doubt!
> Singer is probably a third-rate prof at an academic backwater too,
> isn't he? :) He must be because he's an animal liberationist.
Singer, showing how totally detached from reality and good sense the
academic world can be, got himself an appointment at Princeton, one of
the premier private universities in the U.S.
http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/singerdrawsastir.html
>>> I can't read your link because my anti-censor****p software has stopped
>>> working, I'll have to look at it later.
>> If you weren't willingly helping sup****t a corrupt autocracy, you
>> wouldn't have this issue. You're helping to prop up the vestiges of
one
>> of the most corrupt, murderous regimes in history. The Chinese
>> Communist party caused the deaths of tens, more likely hundreds of
>> millions of Chinese, and here you are helping to sup****t the direct
>> political descendants of the murderers. Many of these people
themselves
>> have blood on their hands, and you're helping them maintain their grip
>> on power.
>
> Well, thanks for your thoughts, Rudy, I'll think about that one,
Not very much, you won't.
> but actually I don't think I'm affecting the political situation in
> China in any tangible way.
You're sup****ting the regime.
> I really had no idea that I was "willingly" paying taxes.
Who said anything about taxes, you ****?
> I mean, I got assaulted in a nightclub a few months ago
Tell us more. Did you grab the ass of another bloke's girl? How long
were you unconscious?
> George Bush has blood on his hands, does he not?
He sure does. I just heard a bit on radio yesterday about a former
prosecutor (guy prosecuted Charles Manson and his "family"; you're too
young to know anything about it) who has written a book laying out the
case for charging Bush with the murder of all the American servicemen
who have died in Iraq. That doesn't even address his guilt for the
deaths of Iraqis. I completely and thoroughly oppose the war in Iraq,
and I think Bush should have been impeached - far too late for that now
- and, once out of office, should be prosecuted.
> Why don't you go and work in the Netherlands?
Unlike the gerontocracy in China, we don't have a regime here. Bush is
but one part of the government, and he will leave office at the end or
his term. Our system of government here, unlike China's, isn't
inherently corrupt. Until China stops being a one-party state - a
system you are sup****ting, even if only in a small way - it will be a
tyranny. You ought not sup****t it.
BTW, I'd love to be able to move my family to Europe. I don't think
it's a realistic possibility. I think I'm too old to get a work visa,
and they would refuse me political asylum.
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