On Jul 22, 11:16 pm, Michael Price <nini_...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 12:01 pm, jetgraphics <jetgraph...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > On Jul 19, 7:17 am, Michael Price <nini_...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > >Since usury is mathematically
> > > > impossible* to pay in a finite money token system,
>
> > > Which nobody is under at the moment and which nobody was ever
> > > under that I know of. In any case it's only impossible if the
> > > usurers
> > > don't spend anything.
>
> > JG: You do not comprehend the mechanics of usury, nor compound
> > interest.
>
> > In 1836 John Whipple, an American lawyer, showed the impossibility of
> > sustaining long term metallic usury:
>
> > "If 5 English pennies... had been... at 5 per cent compound interest
> > from the beginning of the Christian era until the present time, it
> > would amount in gold of standard fineness to 32,366,648,157 spheres of
> > gold each eight thousand miles in diameter, or as large as the earth."
> > "(the purpose of money is to facilitate exchange) It was never
> > intended as an article of trade, as an article possessing an inherent
> > value in itself, (but) as a representative or test of the value of all
> > other articles.
>
> Clearly it's you who are ignorant since precious metals were used as
> currency because they were an article possessing "inherent value in
> itself"
> as much as anything does. In fact of course nothing has inherent
> value
> in itself but only value according to the subjective judgements of
> human
> beings. The fact is that as I said your reasoning assumes that the
> savers don't ever spend, which they do.
JG: Spending has little to do with the aggregate debt.
Any money token system that is finite cannot endure usury.
Whether the money token is precious metal coin, or debt-credit paper
notes, usury will always create an obligation that is greater than the
sum of tokens.
Tally up the outstanding obligations:
Outstanding mortgage debt, bonds, private debt, and public debt.
Then tally up the money tokens.
If all debt is called due on demand, the system collapses, because all
creditors cannot be paid.
Using the velocity of money to hide an impossible situation is fraud,
plain and simple.
And when the debtors finally do default, the usurers can claim their
property, pledged as collateral, and thus legally steal.
> > It undoubtedly admits of private owner****p but of an
> > owner****p that is not absolute, like the product of individual
> > industry, but qualified and
> > limited by the special use for which it was designed...."
>
> > [Note: Whipple poetically expressed the flaw inherent in usury - the
> > impossibility to repay usury. I came to the same belated conclusion,
> > myself. Sigh - the consequences of a "government indoctrination"!]
>
> Government indoctrination has nothing to do with it, and in fact
> governments have been historically hostile to interest, particularly
> when they have to pay.
>
>
>
> > To further illustrate, consider the U.S. National
Debt:http://www.debtclock.com/
> > U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
>
> > The Outstanding Public Debt as of 23 Jul 2008 at 01:58:24 AM GMT is:
> > $ 9,522,365,373,938.49 (9.5 T)
>
> > The estimated population of the United States is 304,404,803
> > so each citizen's share of this debt is $31,281.92.
>
> > The Fed M1 totals about 1.3 T.
>
> > Unfortunately, even that is far from the truth.
>
> > The national debt is only payable in lawful money, gold or silver
> > coin. The debt translates into an obligation to pay an amount of gold
> > 85 times greater than the whole world's above ground stock of gold.
> > In short, it's an impossible debt.
>
> Why blame usury for that? It's clearly the governments fault. In
> any case it's only impossible to pay if everyone decides they want
> gold at the same time, which if you knew anything about economics
> you'd know was impossible.
JG: Usury is to blame. And government is to blame for entering into
contracts with usurers.
Your rebuttal that a debt denominated in gold is not impossible to pay
as long as all creditors do not demand their payment is absurd.
Clinging to "economics knowledge" as your foundation is laughable. The
easiest way to start a fight is to put two Economists in the same
room. Economists can't count higher than ten without taking off their
shoes. Calling Economics a Science is an insult to Science. As long as
the unit of measure, money, is a variable and not a constant,
Economics is wishful thinking and misdirection.
You can ask an PhD Economist if the Income Tax is hidden in the retail
price of American made goods and services, and most will answer "NO".
Of course, anyone with common sense knows that the ultimate tax payer
is the customer - the last in line who invariably pays all the taxes
levied on production and labor. Why is that im****tant?
Tax ****fting and usury, combined, have crippled America's economic
might, made im****ts indirectly subsidized (no hidden tax), and
instituted an unconstitutional ex****t tax.
For your home assignment, plot the data from the listed years on a
logarithmic chart:
Gross Per Capita Debt, Income, Budget (Federal) for the years
1890-1920.
(Go to the U.S. Department of Commerce Statistical Abstracts,
available to the public)
Then ask any Economist about the "step function" in 1916.
On a linear chart, it won't show up. But on a log chart - whoo eee!
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