Re: The Myth Of Occupied Gaza

Peter Webb wrote:
>>>
>>> Before we change topic onto new allegations about Israel, do you 
>>> accept that
>>> your previous allegations are wrong? Specifically, do you accept that:
>>>
>>> 1. Israel does not control the domestic affairs of Gaza. Hamas is the
>>> government of Gaza.
>>
>> Hamas have not been allowed to govern Gaza. Israel controls the
>> movement of Palestinians, the water supply and it controls the skies
>> over the occupied territories. Israeli influence over countries that
>> supplied aid to the Palestinians means that it has ceased.
>>
> 
> These are untrue at worst and misleading at best.
> 
> Israel exercises no control over the internal affairs of Gaza. None.
Zero.
> 
> They do control what goes into and out of Gaza. They use this power only

> to prevent the inflow of weapons into Gaza.
> 
> I don't know why Iran (for example) doesn't supply Gaza with cheap 
> petrol; they do after all have the second largest oil reserves in the 
> world, and are supposedly an ally of the Palestinian people. They don't,

> though, and that's got nothing to do with the Israeli blockade. It is on

> weapons only.
> 
> 
> 
>>> 2. Israel is not stopping Gaza from im****ting anything they like, by
>>> whatever means they like, from anybody who wants to sell them 
>>> anything, with
>>> the sole exception of bringing in weapons that may be used to wage 
>>> war on
>>> Israel.
>>
>> 'Wage war on Israel' ..... You mean defend themselves against the
>> overwhelming military superiority of Israel.
>>
> 
> Well, whatever you call it, the purpose is to stop people in Palestine 
> from killing Israelis.
> 
> Its not to "starve" the Palestinian people; food (for example) is not 
> embargoed.
> 
> 
>>> 3. In a somewhat bizarre twist, the government of Israel is in fact
>>> supplying goods and services to Gaza, despite the fact that the 
>>> government
>>> of Gaza is committed to the destruction of Israel.
>>
>> I think that you will find the UN are keeping many Palestinians alive.
> 
> In Gaza? How?
> 
>> Perhaps you could give us some details of these 'goods and services'
>> Israel is supplying to the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Electricity, fuel, food, international telecommunications services, 
> machinery.
> 
> 
>> Israel has imprisoned many of
>> the elected Hamas party members.
> 
> For terrorism.
> 
> 
>> Israel refuses to acknowledge the
>> peoples choice of government.
> 
> I note that you don't say "democratically elected" because of course 
> they weren't - the elected government of "Palestine" is Fatah, Gaza is 
> in fact a break-away "province" where Hamas took defacto control in a 
> military coup.
> 
> Puting that short history lesson aside, WTF is your statement supposed 
> to mean? What sovereign nation in the entire world "acknowledges" Hamas 
> as controlling Gaza any more or any less than Israel "acknowledges" it?
> 
> 
> 
>> As we both know the total destruction
>> of Israel will never happen.
> 
> I hope, anyway.
> 
> 
>>  You insinuate Israel is the big brother
>> that despite it's younger brothers misdemeanors it continues to care
>> for him.
> 
> I insinuate nothing of the sort. I will make my own arguments, thank
you.
> 
> 
>> Water is a basic human need for survival and yet Israel
>> controls 80% of it and are indeed deliberately contaminating supplies
>> destined for Palestinian inhabitants.
>>
> 
> Evidence?
> 
> 
>>> When these have been resolved, perhaps we can move onto your new and
>>> different rant about the evil of Israel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> If not, there would seem little points in discussing the "facts", 
>>> as >> you
>>> >> don't care about facts in forming your opinion. If you are 
>>> prepared to
>>> >> change your opinions on the basis of facts (as I am), I am happy to
>>> >> continue
>>> >> pointing out any factual errors in your posts, as indeed I welcome 
>>> you >> to
>>> >> point out any errors of fact in mine.
>>>
>>> Are you happy to change your opinions if your "facts" turn out to be 
>>> wrong?
>>
>> http://www.btselem.org/english/gaza_strip/gaza_status.asp
>>
> 
> That site does not claim that Israel is stopping anything or anybody 
> entering or leaving Gaza, other than weapons.

That site clearly states:

"Air space and territorial waters: Israel continues to maintain complete 
control over the air and sea space of the Gaza Strip. Control of the air 
space provides Israel with the ability to effectively and easily control 
actions on the ground, and to interfere with radio and television 
broadcasts. Control of the coastal area and territorial waters enables 
Israel , among other things, to restrict the activity of Palestinian 
fishermen. Israel 's control is also manifested in the need to obtain 
Israeli approval to operate a sea****t and air****t, the lack of which 
impairs freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip and impairs the 
Palestinians' conduct of foreign trade."

VV