Re: Tourists will be jailed if they talk politics in China

<cnniscrap@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:7ae7b1ea-3c56-4214-8af6-93d27d6662cb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>You tend to forget that there are badly functioning democracies and
>well functioning dictator****ps.

I'm always speaking in abstract terms, or the properties
of the two forms of govt when each is at a high level of
development.


>While US may be a democrat inward, it's a dictator outward.

I always hear things like this, it's not the American people, but
our foreign policies. As if our foreign policies are not a product
of the American people. Although Iraq has been one of the more
controversial policies in some time, by and large the American
people...want....and approve if not demand an agressive
foreign policy. And this is not just since 9/11, but most Americans
understand that this world can produce some very dangerous
things, and Americans know that no other country will lift a
damn finger to do a thing about it...except for America.

You'd be surprised just how /little/ most Americans care about
what other coutries think about us and our foriegn policies.
Every year Congress spends more and more on defense and
few people think that's a bad thing.  You have to understand
how much has changed now that the Soviet Union is gone.
All that time the US lived in the shadow of a massive nuclear
exchange. Which restrained our actions overseas, forcing us
to resort to rather immoral tactics such as using other countries
as proxy battlefields with the Soviets.

We don't have to worry about the nukes anymore.

So now we can act overseas as we feel we should.
That's not going to change for quite a while.


>Its democratic process, coupled with virulent nationalism, has
>led to genocide around the world where people are deprived
>their right to self-determination. At least the Chinese
>contained their problems to their soil.

China is an empire much like the former Soviet Union.
It should and will soon enough break up into several
smaller nations like the USSR did. Limiting your 'problems'
to only /one fifth/ of the population of the earth is rather
rediculous thing to say.



>Nations like China are going their own and very successful
>way, with its rapid rising living standards for the people, the
>progress in freedom and liberty, the diversification of the economy
>and lifestyles, an ever rising capitalist class and increases in private
>owner****p.

The rapid rise in economic success is also a property of dictator****ps
and their command economies. But another property of top down
control structures is that they cannot create the kind of internal
adaptive self correcting mechanisms, democratic mechanisms, needed
for the economy to control  /itself/. It's only a matter of time before
the Chinese economy bubbles. And it'll collapse hard and fast when
the bubble bursts.

That will be the time when democracy rises in China.


>China has showed its earnest desire to embrace the
>rest of the world in entering WTO, UN peace keeping force, hosting
>Olympics, World Expo, etc.

They are merely attempting to buy a facade of legitimacy.

>Democracy has seeped into society  and people whether
>the leaders of this country like it or not.

I dont see any democracy in the political system.
Which means the economic system will become
more and more corrupt and abusive of the workers
as time goes on. A capitalist economy must have
a fairly good balance of power between the workers
and owners. Only a democracy can find and maintain
such a balance. A dictator****p will allow the powerful
to dominate, and over time become entirely dominant.

There is an economic catastrophe in China's near future.
And it's a lack of democracy that will cause it/

>But many so called democracy activists do not acknowledge
>the huge changes that have happened in China in recent
>years.


What I see is history repeating itself. What was it that forced
Imperial Japan into starting a world war? Wasn't it a shortage
of resources for it's massive and quickly growing economy?
A shortage made worse by embargoes because of human rights
violations Japan was committing?

Why will the future of the CCP be any different?


>Instead they feel necessary to ****tray China today as the
>darkest and cruelest era in order to press for a democracy to the
>western standard. If anything, this approach destroys the credibility
>of the argument because the audience can see the real China for
>themselves.

I'm counting on the world seeing the 'real' China during the Olympics.

The Orwellian sterility is going to shock a lot of people that currently
see China as a benign dictator****p. There's an old saying....

"Be careful for what you wish for"


Jonathan

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