On Jul 8, 1:48 am, bmo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Jul 7, 6:11 am, ltlee1 <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 6, 3:46 pm, Free Tibet <freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
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> > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:44:41 -0700 (PDT), "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
> > > <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >On Jul 5, 10:05 am, Free Tibet <freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > >wrote:
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> > > >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:16:54 -0700 (PDT), "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
> > > >> <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >On Jul 4, 8:18 pm, Free Tibet <freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
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> > > >> >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:17:16 -0700 (PDT), "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
> > > >> >> <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >> >On Jul 4, 1:52 pm, Free Tibet
<freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> > > >> >> >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:03:35 -0700 (PDT),
"fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
>
> > > >> >> >> <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >On Jul 4, 3:24 am, Free Tibet
<freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> > > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:22:06 -0700 (PDT),
"fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
> > > >> >> >> >> <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >The government subsidy of any religion is wrong. And
the Chinese
> > > >> >> >> >> >government has been doing this in Tibet in a very
stupid way. If
> > > >> >> >> >> >anyone in Tibet wants to become a lama in a temple, he
or she should
> > > >> >> >> >> >finance his or her own career endeavor in much the same
way that an
> > > >> >> >> >> >engineer student has to finance his schooling. That the
central
> > > >> >> >> >> >government has been financially sup****ting Tibet's
religion and in
> > > >> >> >> >> >particular that monstrous building named Potala in
order to tell the
> > > >> >> >> >> >world how nice the Chinese government is does sound
silly to me and
> > > >> >> >> >> >has already backfired.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >Government's financial sup****t of Potala has created a
surplus of
> > > >> >> >> >> >lamas at a prive level above equilibrium that would
have prevailed
> > > >> >> >> >> >under a competitive market situation. Years ago in
California,
> > > >> >> >> >> >government sup****ted college education programs created
a generation
> > > >> >> >> >> >of 'flower people' or the intellectual proletarians.
These people did
> > > >> >> >> >> >not want to pick up meniel jobs; they just wanted to
provide answers
> > > >> >> >> >> >to how to save mankind from sufferings.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >Potala at this moment is very much like the California
education
> > > >> >> >> >> >system years ago when I was there. The Tibetan
families are sending
> > > >> >> >> >> >their kids to this large monumental structure where
they can have free
> > > >> >> >> >> >food and lodging while reciting mantra and do so at
government
> > > >> >> >> >> >expenses or the expenses of the tax payers in the other
parts of
> > > >> >> >> >> >China. At the same time they are getting sympathy from
the other
> > > >> >> >> >> >'flower people' or welfare bums in the rest of the
world especially
> > > >> >> >> >> >Canada and Europe.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >What the Chinese governent should do is to privatize
Potala and turn
> > > >> >> >> >> >it into a private enterprise capable of sup****ting
itself. That means
> > > >> >> >> >> >anyone who wants to become a lama there should pay for
his own
> > > >> >> >> >> >religious endeavor instead of leaning on the government
for money. In
> > > >> >> >> >> >this way, they can achieve freedom by paying for what
they are getting
> > > >> >> >> >> >at Potala. The government would no longer need to put
up any show to
> > > >> >> >> >> >the foreign press and it is up to the directors in this
Potala
> > > >> >> >> >> >Incor****ated to maintain laws and orders. The
directors of this
> > > >> >> >> >> >Potala Incor****ated can invite into its holy premises
big names like
> > > >> >> >> >> >Big Mac and Starbuck or Peking ducks...or night clubs
as long as these
> > > >> >> >> >> >business activities can keep Potala pay off its
overheads and keep the
> > > >> >> >> >> >surplus monks out of trouble. If the Chinese
government could do
> > > >> >> >> >> >that, it would further observe the spirit of Adam
Smith's laissez-
> > > >> >> >> >> >faire philosophy.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Provide a proper free education system that teaches
reading and
> > > >> >> >> >> writing of Tibetan language and perhaps the number of
young monks
> > > >> >> >> >> might reduce. It's unlikely though. Young children were
able to go and
> > > >> >> >> >> study at monasteries at an early age, just as Chinese
kids start
> > > >> >> >> >> school at 5yo or so, but China now says a Tibetan must
be 17yo to go
> > > >> >> >> >> to the monasteries. Starting reading and writing at 17?
Good way to
> > > >> >> >> >> dumb down the occupied country isn't it?
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Tibetans have had Buddhism over 1000 years longer than
China has had
> > > >> >> >> >> communism and that's not even the same communism China
had 60 years
> > > >> >> >> >> ago! Tibetans stick to what works. Not all new ideas
are better than
> > > >> >> >> >> the old. But it's about cultural genocide - don't let
them access
> > > >> >> >> >> their own written and oral history and their culture
MUST die out.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Kindness and compassion are in short supply in the
Chinese government
> > > >> >> >> >> and, from what I read here, in the Chinese people too.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> FT
>
> > > >> >> >> >> ~~~
> > > >> >> >> >> This PGP signature only certifies the sender and date of
the message.
> > > >> >> >> >> It implies no approval from the administrators of
nym.panta-rhei.eu.org.
> > > >> >> >> >> Date: Thu Jul 3 19:24:22 2008 GMT
> > > >> >> >> >> From: freeti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > > >> >> >> >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux)
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> > > >> >> >> >>
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> > > >> >> >> >> J2DbEI8/4k7X2Xb9NRgw8pI=
> > > >> >> >> >> =s++N
> > > >> >> >> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE------ Hide quoted text -
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> > > >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > >> >> >> >My understanding is that the natives of Tibet study their
native
> > > >> >> >> >language together with Mandarin in primary and high
schools. Is my
> > > >> >> >> >understanding incorrect?
>
> > > >> >> >> Unfortunately education is only available in major towns
and usually
> > > >> >> >> only to Han Chinese. The education is not free and most
Tibetans
> > > >> >> >> cannot afford the school fees. Chinese is taught in primary
and
> > > >> >> >> secondary schools but not all schools offer Tibetan. If
they do, the
> > > >> >> >> students are taught Tibetan by Chinese teachers who rarely
have the
> > > >> >> >> skills to teach both languages.
>
> > > >> >> >I question the validity of the statements you have made. Any
proof?
> > > >> >> >Don't just throw something into the air and treat it
> > > >> >> >done!
>
> > > >> >> The statements I have made are from living in Tibet with
Tibetan
> > > >> >> people.
>
> > > >> >That is not do***ented evidence. It is a bunch of heresay.
>
> > > >> And what label should we put on the statements of yours? Where's
your
> > > >> proof?
>
> > > >> >I am not throwing anything in the air, unlike this statement:
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >Government's financial sup****t of Potala has created a
surplus of
> > > >> >> >> >> >lamas at a prive level above equilibrium that would
have prevailed
> > > >> >> >> >> >under a competitive market situation.
>
> > > >> >In the absence of do***ented evidence, you do need theories to
make
> > > >> >inference of the situation. I also have friends who are
Tibetans
> > > >> >themselves too. What they have said is different from what you
have
> > > >> >said.
>
> > > >> Theories hey? How are your theories more accurate than mine or
anyone
> > > >> else who posts here? Re your Tibetan friends maybe they are
people who
> > > >> "like the Chinese" or are afraid to speak the truth or just don't
know
> > > >> what's going on. Hearsay.
>
> > > >> >> What exactly is a competitive market situation for lamas? What
proof
> > > >> >> is there for this? I think a lot of people who have never
visited, let
> > > >> >> alone lived in Tibet, make these types of claims which are
basically
> > > >> >> rubbish.
>
> > > >> >Why have the Tibetans not come out of Tibet and seek employment
> > > >> >elsewhere? This shows you where the economic op****tunities are.
>
> > > >> Great idea! And what language should they speak to get these
economic
> > > >> op****tunites?
>
> > > >Mandarin...what else? Do you need to speak English in the US to
> > > >obtain economic op****tunities?
>
> > > You don't appear to be reading very well. Most Tibetans can't afford
> > > school fees. I do not live in the US.
>
> > > >Since you said no native language
> > > >training is given to the Tibetans, what is left is that they
> > > >spent years(up to 17 age) in studying Mandarin. What is the
> > > >problem there?
>
> > > As above.
>
> > > >You have your account and I have mine. I am asking you for
> > > >proof. I am not saying you are wrong, nor I am saying that I
> > > >have been misinformed by my Tibetan friend. So show proof.
> > > >For example, you seem to have suggested the Tibetans are not
> > > >taught their native language up to 17 and after they reach
> > > >17 the teachers are only Hans. Show proof of what you said, either
in
> > > >the form of do***ented evidence or otherwise. Is there
> > > >a law that forbids native Tibetans from teaching their language?
>
> > > OK. In simple terms. VERY few
> > > Tibetans get the op****tunity to go to
> > > school, let alone TEACH at a school.
>
> > How few?
>
> > > We are talking about an occupied
> > > country. The invaders don't treat the invaded as they do their own.
> > > The invaded are treated as second class citizens.
>
> > Foreign Titans such as those in India are probably treated by their
> > hosts as second class citizens.
>
> LT demands an impossibly high standard of proof from others when their
> assertions don't sup****t his agenda. Yet, he tries to get away with
> "probably" with no backup with his own assertions. Very silly and
> lame. And false, certainly in the case of the US. I have seen with my
> own eyes that Tibetans are not treated as second class citizens here.
>
> BTW, a Titan is a deity from Greek mythology. I didn't realize there
> were any in India today ;-)
>
> > Not in China. Quite the contrary, the
> > Tibetans have more rights in comparison to the Han Chinese.
>
> Yes, we know you always spin it that way. The reality, however, is
> much different.> > Their future is
> > > grim. Their culture is being eroded every day of every year. The way
> > > you ****tray Tibet and Tibetans shows you know absolutely nothing
about
> > > the reality of life in Tibet. All you know is what the Chinese
> > > government has told you. Your
garbage from garbage man
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